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Offline krudskie

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neding help
« on: July 13, 2009, 07:19:59 AM »
hi LGM shouts ou here from the Phil...like ive been out for almost like ages...i missed this site so so much..

Like going back i'm needing help with the circle of fifths ive been stuck in there...yeah i know how the purpose of it...but then how can it help so that i could play by ear or i could know immediately what chords to play after the next one....sorry if this sounds like a newbie question or whatever you think about it  :P...but i'm really needing some help about the COF....thnx so much and God Bless to everyone

P.S. I Love this sit sooooooo much  ;D

Offline T-Block

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Re: neding help
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2009, 02:37:53 PM »
Before you get to the circle of 5ths, what u should do is learn the chord patterns. Memorize this musical Zip Code: (7)-3-6-2-5-1-(4)

Once u know this pattern, you can use the circle of 5ths. As it regards to music, the circle of 5ths serves 2 purposes. Reading the circle clockwise, the notes are in 5ths. They represent how many sharps or flats are in a certain key.

C (0 sharps or flats)
G (1 sharp)
D (2 sharps)
A (3 sharps)
E (4 sharps)
B (5 sharps) / Cb (7 flats)
F# (6 sharps) / Gb (6 flats)
C# (7 sharps) / Db (5 flats)
Ab (4 flats)
Eb (3 flats)
Bb (2 flats)
F (1 flats)

Now, if u read the circle counter-clockwise, the notes are in 4ths. This is how your chords move, in 4ths. Remember that musical zip code I showed b4? Those numbers are in 4ths. Here's how the circle looks in reverse:

C
F
Bb
Eb
Ab
Db/C#
Gb/F#
Cb/B
E
A
D
G

So, let's utilize this knowledge with an example:

Let's start on the note C.

C

Now, let's say that C is 1. If C is 1, what is 4? Going from 1 to 4 is a movement of a 4th. So, to see what that note is, you would look on the circle of 5ths and find the note C. Next, would read the circle backwards 1 note to find the 4th movement. The note u land on is F.

Now, let's say u want to know what the 3 is. How do u find it? Well, what u have to do is read the circle in the other direction to get to 3.

So, u start with C being 1:

C (1)

Then, u read the note that came befor it, which is G. In the musical zip code, a 5 comes before 1. So, G must be the 5:

C (1)
G (5)

Then, u do the same process until u get to 3:

C (1)
G (5)
D (2)
A (6)
E (3)

You see how that worked? All of those notes are found on the circle of 5ths. It all depends on which direction u read it in.

Does that help any?
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline krudskie

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Re: neding help
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2009, 05:23:30 PM »
thnx T-block....like im getting many information in here....

but still i have a follow up question about it....let's say if i have mastered the circle of fifth what would be the its result or how would it help me as a musician...or is there any drill or exercises for me to follow concerning about the COF .. ;D sorry it might be dumb question.... :-\ thnx so much for the reply...

Seeing forward to be come like you guys in God's time

Offline T-Block

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Re: neding help
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2009, 09:42:40 PM »
thnx T-block....like im getting many information in here....

but still i have a follow up question about it....let's say if i have mastered the circle of fifth what would be the its result or how would it help me as a musician...or is there any drill or exercises for me to follow concerning about the COF .. ;D sorry it might be dumb question.... :-\ thnx so much for the reply...


The first result is you will know all your key signatures. When u get to a certain key, u will pretty much know what notes to play to stay within that key.

The second result is you will know what chords are likely to follow each other. Again, if u study the musical Zip Code and apply it to every key, u will know what comes next.

Here's a link to a drill that I came up with for learning the musical zip code in every key: http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,50263.0.html
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline krudskie

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Re: neding help
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2009, 05:17:43 AM »
can i have a last question pls ;D if its ok with you T-Block

Offline berbie

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Re: neding help
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2009, 11:56:59 AM »
T, Krudskie asked you a very significant question which is often not asked but an assumed answer is developed in the mind of the learner. The question in effect is; "wiifm" or what's in it for me. The assumed answer is "I don't see how that will help me. How will all that scale and pattern study help me?  I want to learn songs and fast". 

So many advertized courses proport to teach you to play in minutes, guaranteed.  In reality, there is NO easy way to learn to play the piano well.

The ones that really teach you to play, ex. Jamal's beginners course, "play by ear"  when coupled with the " no more transpose" download will really teach a beginner to play well, but if you investigate you find it is NOT EASY. You have to study scales and cord progressions and learn all the chords and scale numbers until you are blue in the face and sick of it. You would have to listen to a thousand cds to relate patterns and bass notes. If you do that , then using his course you would learn to play well in the length of time dictated by your learning ability.  A year or two would be a good expectation when considering time required.  There are, of course other courses that will do the same.

T Block has enough free material on this site to take a new beginner to as a minimun an intermediate level, and a diligent quick learner to an advanced level. Start as he advises and follow through skipping nothing.  He has even set up a schedule of steps to follow so that a click and a print will place each step in hard copy into your hands. But of course, it is not easy.

In my mind, if a new beginner can be made somehow to know that the "scud" work  will really pay off in the final analysis it would be done on faith. When we give that advice, how do we answer the question, "wiifm"?



I would like to hear comments on this matter.

berbie

Offline T-Block

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Re: neding help
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2009, 12:46:52 PM »
can i have a last question pls ;D if its ok with you T-Block

You can ask as many questions as you want. I'll do my best to answer them, if I know the answer at all.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline T-Block

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Re: neding help
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2009, 12:56:02 PM »
In my mind, if a new beginner can be made somehow to know that the "scud" work  will really pay off in the final analysis it would be done on faith. When we give that advice, how do we answer the question, "wiifm"?

I would like to hear comments on this matter.

I look at it like this, to be great at anything it's gonna take time and dedication. That's what a lot of people these days just don't understand, it ain't gonna happen just like that. You gotta work at it.

Now, along with that, it also takes building a foundation. The foundation is usually the longest, most boring part of anything. If u can't stick it out through the foundation, ur project is gonna FAIL.

What's in it for me? This depends on your goal as a musician. Do u want to just play a few songs? Do you want to be a great musician? Do u want to just be able to do a lot of fancy runs?

Answering that question will determine what a person will or won't practice. If they just wanna play a few songs, ain't no way they gonna be interested in the major scale. If they just want to do fancy runs, ain't no way they gonna be interested in what a diminished chord is. U feel me?

So, until a person decides what kind of musician they want to be, they will eventually get to a point where it seems pointless and give up. Once they decide, then it's all about whether they are willing to do whatever it takes to get there.

Even if u don't see the relevance in it right now, do it because u see the results from others better than you who went through the same process. I don't have to smoke to know that I can die from it. I see people die everyday from smoking.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline krudskie

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Re: neding help
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2009, 01:12:15 AM »
yeah...i heard both of u....i know that i still have a long way to go..really thought of buying dvd stuff so that i can learn easily..of which apparently is wrong is suppose...i've been in this web for almost a year and like with so much info i don't know what to digest in  ;D

For T-block:

Ok here's my scenario my question is could you guide as to where my direction should go in terms of learning the "foundation". Like i've been playing keyboard for almost 3 years and for the first 2 years i've been playing classical music of which right now i have knowledge in sight reading ....almost a year ago i got the hobby of playing blues and which gospel music is derived from right? (correct me if im wrong  ;D)....i know how to play scales, chords, inversions play extensions though not very fluent on it...i know my numbering system...
i know what COF but still right now im getting to understand it fully.. and as well the progression....my goal as a musician is that i can play with in this genre(blues, gospel, jazz...,) fluently and eventually  become a songwriter for God  ;D....
so given with what i know, can do and what my goal is...what should be my checklist that i should follow or practice....

thank you so much.....even if i have to start all over again..by all means i will do so for God..though i can't you thank you personally...but one day in heaven i would find time looking for u guyz just to thank you..woah is this drama?.. :D lolz.. ;D

P.S. T-block can you be my personal mentor and all the LGM members here?

Offline T-Block

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Re: neding help
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2009, 12:58:56 PM »
Quote
yeah...i heard both of u....i know that i still have a long way to go..really thought of buying dvd stuff so that i can learn easily..of which apparently is wrong is suppose...


There's nothing wrong with buying DVDs to help you. The problem comes in thinking it will magically give u the skills u want.

Quote
Ok here's my scenario my question is could you guide as to where my direction should go in terms of learning the "foundation". Like i've been playing keyboard for almost 3 years and for the first 2 years i've been playing classical music of which right now i have knowledge in sight reading ....almost a year ago i got the hobby of playing blues and which gospel music is derived from right? (correct me if im wrong  ;D)....i know how to play scales, chords, inversions play extensions though not very fluent on it...i know my numbering system...
i know what COF but still right now im getting to understand it fully.. and as well the progression....my goal as a musician is that i can play with in this genre(blues, gospel, jazz...,) fluently and eventually  become a songwriter for God  ;D....
so given with what i know, can do and what my goal is...what should be my checklist that i should follow or practice....


Well, like I tell anyone who wants to be a good musician, u need to make sure u know your music theory, with and without the keybaord. Major scales, basic chords, and progressions is the 3-step process I recommend for a good foundation in music.

After u get good with progressions, I recommend getting CDs and just listen. Listen for those progressions u been practicing. If u don't recognize any off the bat, listen to the progression of the song itself and see if u can name the progression using ur ear. Write down all the bass notes u hear, then turn them into progression numbers.

I see u come from a classical music background and u can read music. I started off just like that. I learned theory in school, I learned all about the classical music, etc. I didn't get into playing gospel until a few years later, although I was a drummer at church all my life, LOL.

This is a link I got in the Gospel Hangout Room that contains a ton of topics that will help give you a good foundation in gospel music (well, music period):  http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,42768.0.html

Quote
P.S. T-block can you be my personal mentor and all the LGM members here?


Sure, just ask me whatever u want and I'll do my best to assist you.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline krudskie

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Re: neding help
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2009, 09:08:09 AM »
this maybe on the wrong thread....about the link you gave..the drills..like where should i do it should i do the drill on the keyboard or i write the answers only?

concerning about the dvd i wrote it incorrectly as to which what i would like say  ;D...what i really meant was exactly what you said T-Block..

thnx so much for sticking up with me...God bless..God knows how i'm thankful for you guyz

Offline T-Block

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Re: neding help
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2009, 01:41:01 PM »
this maybe on the wrong thread....about the link you gave..the drills..like where should i do it should i do the drill on the keyboard or i write the answers only?

I would write them out on paper first (w/no keyboard around), then go to the keyboard and play them. If u got it in your head first, then u will be able to transfer it to the keyboard more easily.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!
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