What is the difference between a guitar player and a musician who plays guitar?

[ed_shaw]

It could be seen as deep, ubc, but it also may be considered to be just another way of looking at the thing. The position of the note on the scale is seen to be as important as the note itself. One thing it allows is more flexibility playing in a variety of keys. I am no  expert, but I concentrate on things like this more than trying to get good at sight reading. I also don't count on music to make a living.
Having the sheet music or lead sheet on the stand in front is a huge help. The first thing I did when I got serious was to learn the major modes and the positions of the triads and their inversions. Especially what I could hear after being able to move around those chord voices got me excited and eager for more knowledge.  It really helps with call and response phrases, which are so important in popular gospel.
Learning the triads automatically teaches the root-3-5 fret positions in all keys, up and down the neck.

[ubc_rown]

It could be seen as deep, ubc, but it also may be considered to be just another way of looking at the thing. The position of the note on the scale is seen to be as important as the note itself. One thing it allows is more flexibility playing in a variety of keys. I am no  expert, but I concentrate on things like this more than trying to get good at sight reading. I also don't count on music to make a living.
Having the sheet music or lead sheet on the stand in front is a huge help. The first thing I did when I got serious was to learn the major modes and the positions of the triads and their inversions. Especially what I could hear after being able to move around those chord voices got me excited and eager for more knowledge.  It really helps with call and response phrases, which are so important in popular gospel.
Learning the triads automatically teaches the root-3-5 fret positions in all keys, up and down the neck.

Cool,maybe deep is not word.What about very HELPFUL.Interesting brother.

[ed_shaw]

Thanks for reading and commenting, UBC. The question of this thread, the difference between a guitar player and a musician, is one of the big ones. One of the jazz greats, I think it was Dizzy Gillespie, was asked,
"Have you taken music lessons?" He said, "Sure, Man, I've taken lessons. But not enough to hurt my playing." 

[Abe]

Thanks for reading and commenting, UBC. The question of this thread, the difference between a guitar player and a musician, is one of the big ones. One of the jazz greats, I think it was Dizzy Gillespie, was asked,
"Have you taken music lessons?" He said, "Sure, Man, I've taken lessons. But not enough to hurt my playing." 

That was a cool answer....

[marvj]

Well I agree with alot that has been said here already and from personal experience here is my 2cents worth...

I started playing the piano but i quickly realised that i was going nowhere fast. I can still remember theory being like algebra! And i hated it!! I sucked at learning to read music theory just like i sucked at algebra! Today I am a senior manager (without algebra) and i play three instruments (without theory). Yes theory is important but when the Spirit of God takes over in a service, improvising is key and that comes from musicality.(if that is a word!) Anyway point is its pointless being able READ a language but when someone SAYS something not in the book you are lost... same goes for music! just my experience... take it leave it your choice!

[melrhyne]

Theory is, well- THEORY!
It's WHY something was played a certain way.
It lends itself to the old adage ' which came first, the chicken or the egg?'
In this case 'music' came first.

I was lucky enough to have a professor who stressed learning by and developing your ear. Reading and "hearing" should go hand in hand.
I try to give my own private students as much ear training as possible.
Learning everything by ear allows you to have a more "personal" relationship with what your playing.
You start thinking in terms of color and shade and feeling, as opposed to "which" scale.

[jlynnb1]

Theory is, well- THEORY!
It's WHY something was played a certain way.
It lends itself to the old adage ' which came first, the chicken or the egg?'
In this case 'music' came first.

I was lucky enough to have a professor who stressed learning by and developing your ear. Reading and "hearing" should go hand in hand.
I try to give my own private students as much ear training as possible.
Learning everything by ear allows you to have a more "personal" relationship with what your playing.
You start thinking in terms of color and shade and feeling, as opposed to "which" scale.

i actually think of scales in colors/shades/moods...

[melrhyne]

Right!
You've internalized them enough to see them as shades and colors.

[jlynnb1]

Right!
You've internalized them enough to see them as shades and colors.

that's why i think it's so important to know them...not to be confined by them, but to have the tools at your disposal. like when i hear a vamp that is i-IV (ie Am7-D9), i know immediately it's a Dorian groove. Jazzier, bluesier minor groove. Dorian/pentatonic/blues scale is perfect...the Dominant IV chord automatically lets me know the natural minor/aeolian scale is a no-no. Knowing it's Dorian doesn't amke me run up and down the scale...it sets the comfort zone i can play in. i just think that knowledge is invaluable.

[gtrdave]

that's why i think it's so important to know them...not to be confined by them, but to have the tools at your disposal. like when i hear a vamp that is i-IV (ie Am7-D9), i know immediately it's a Dorian groove. Jazzier, bluesier minor groove. Dorian/pentatonic/blues scale is perfect...the Dominant IV chord automatically lets me know the natural minor/aeolian scale is a no-no. Knowing it's Dorian doesn't make me run up and down the scale...it sets the comfort zone i can play in. i just think that knowledge is invaluable.

A-MEN!
 

[C.LYDE]

What is the difference between a guitar player and a musician who plays guitar?   

1. A musician reads the language of all musicians. A guitar player reads tab.

2. A musician plays music that touches music lovers. A guitar player shows off for other guitar players.

3. A musician listens to good music no matter the instrumentation. A guitar player listens to guitar players.

4. A musician discusses how and why music touches the listener. A guitar player discusses strings, picks, amps and effects.
 
5. A musician understands how all parts of an ensemble fit together to create music. A guitar player just turns up so everyone can hear him.

6. A musician understands the beauty of a few well selected notes. A guitar player just wants to play fast.

7. A musician can find work. A guitar player sits at home playing fast and fuming because nobody ever calls him.

generalization is not something I'm big on... so to put a different perspective...

1. An accomplished guitarist can read both tab and notation 

2. A solo guitarist has the technical ability to wow and the musical sense to convey the 'message'.

3. A good guitar player listen to other music in order to understand how his/her guitar can accompany that particular style/song. A general musician might listen but would have the ability to execute what ideas are popping in their head..

4. A instrumentalist understands and knows the 'weapon' - the generalist goes into battle with a rusty bow, bent arrows and a prayer...

5. A generalist musician knows what good music should sound like but cannot play the necesesary guitar parts to make it so...

6. A good guitarist can play ALL parts, scales, licks, fast or slow - a musician hides technical inability behind words like 'taste' 'feel' 'select'

7. A good guitarist will find work since most requirements are instrument specific and require proficiency greater than the song writer/vocalist/producer.... who's ever been in band with 'musicians' all talking about should be happening, but none having the chops to make it happen...

[C.LYDE]

Theory is, well- THEORY!
It's WHY something was played a certain way.
It lends itself to the old adage ' which came first, the chicken or the egg?'
In this case 'music' came first.

I was lucky enough to have a professor who stressed learning by and developing your ear. Reading and "hearing" should go hand in hand.
I try to give my own private students as much ear training as possible.
Learning everything by ear allows you to have a more "personal" relationship with what your playing.
You start thinking in terms of color and shade and feeling, as opposed to "which" scale.

So what "ear training" are you giving them? The ear (brain) must be taught to recognise certain notes, phrases within context...hence we're back to scales and modes... you know  theory..

[melrhyne]

So what "ear training" are you giving them? The ear (brain) must be taught to recognise certain notes, phrases within context...hence we're back to scales and modes... you know  theory..

Not sure really what you are getting at, or implying, but I did say that " reading and hearing" go hand in hand, and are not to be exclusive of eachother.
I didn't say to just learn by ear, and eschew reading. However, ear training is not stressed and is equally, if not more important.

So what "ear training" do I teach?
If you'd like to schedule a lesson, I'd be glad to show you...
But for starters, we work on chord recognition, interval recognition, chromatic and diatonic note location, etc...

[ed_shaw]

Gospel Ukelele?
Hey: Good Man, Sketch.
Now, you proabably noticed that the 1st position
G scale begins to repeat on the D string, 6th
fret. You can either continue in that first position
and end up on the high E string, third fret, another G,
or, you can take off into the second position
by moving on up the neck. Got it? (Instead of going
G - open A in the first, go G - A up two frets
on the same string, and on up. Not pushing you,
man, just want to let you know about the repetitive
patterns that yield different "voices." As you
know, many layered "voices" from different sources
is what makes it sound good.