Topic: Problem Tom (Read 3463 times)

xcalybur32 · « **on:** February 17, 2009, 10:21:05 AM »

Need some help guys, I just recently bought a new set and I'm having problems with tuning the 12" tom on it. It's a Gretsch Maple with 10,12,14,16 toms. I can get all of the toms to "sing" except that one and before that I had a problem with the 12" on my Pearl before that. Same heads, same tuning (Fanfare Method) all sound good except the 12" which "thuds" I attached some pics for reference and maybe you guys can tell me what I'm doing wrong.

JFunky · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:43:19 AM »

...what heads are those and is the 12" tom a 9" depth?

xcalybur32 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:49:45 AM »

Remo Suedes (great sounding), I had EC2s on the Pearl set which had the same 8" depth

BEATBOXERZ · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:56:11 AM »

I noticed that you have muffle ring on the toms. I like my toms wide open; no muffle rings or tape. I get a good sound out of my 12". I got it tuned just right for me. I tune it the same as I would all my other toms. I really can't explain it because I go off sound. When it sounds right, then it's right. What type of sound are you aiming to get?

Jedi3 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:59:17 AM »

Tuning questions are always so subjective. No one is really going to be able to tell you, per se, how to tune your own drums. You just have to find what works for you and the sound you're looking for. There are some basic things that work across the board though. I would say make sure you are properly stretching/seating the head before you try to tune it...and that applies to batter and resonant sides. Additionally, in my experience, 12" toms tend to be the easiest drums to make "sing." So if none of your techniques are working for, and I assume that they are since the other drums sound good to you, check the drum itself for roundness and make sure the bearing edges are good. And dump those mufflers. If you absolutely must use something, try the moongel joints.

stiksnmypocket · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2009, 11:07:08 AM »

Quote from: xcalybur32 on February 17, 2009, 10:21:05 AM

Need some help guys, I just recently bought a new set and I'm having problems with tuning the 12" tom on it. It's a Gretsch Maple with 10,12,14,16 toms.  I can get all of the toms to "sing" except that one and before that I had a problem with the 12" on my Pearl before that. Same heads, same tuning (Fanfare Method) all sound good except the 12" which "thuds" I attached some pics for reference and maybe you guys can tell me what I'm doing wrong.

may I suggest for one try trashing the Rem O's, if you absolutely depend on external muffling then try moon gel, its a lil more precise in pen pointing problem areas withing the drum.... but to get that 12" right, this is what I show alot of people because the "middle" tom always seems to be the problem if you were using a standard size kit then it would be your 13" tom....lol,

take your 12" into "isolation", or just in a different room away from your drums and find the fundamental pitch of that 1 drum first and get it sounding good to your ears, either one of 2 things will happen you'll put it bak on and it'll fit right in or either you'll end up tweaking your other toms a lil bit which nothing is wrong with that... or if you want to, take your 10" off and put your 12" in its place and tune from there 1st then down and then add the 10" back on.... if you do this correctly and have a few minutes I gurantee it'll work for you....

JFunky · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2009, 11:35:53 AM »

...ah yes, I see the vets have come to the rescue. Good stuff gentlemen. I agree with the fam. Nothing to add from my end other than....."Get Remo Clear Emperors over Clear Ambassadors or Evans G Plus over G1's."

MODERN_DRUMMER · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2009, 11:47:00 AM »

2nd tom is always problem tuning, me and some friends had this conversation the other day, you just gotta mess around with it till you get that sound you want, sometimes you have to play through it and later on the sound you want will come.hope this helps, set up looks nice!

dude-on-drums · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2009, 12:17:16 PM »

12" toms are the worst. I'm gonna try that isolation method and tune the rest of my drums to the around the 12.

xcalybur32 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2009, 12:21:49 PM »

Quote from: MODERN_DRUMMER on February 17, 2009, 11:47:00 AM

2nd tom is always problem tuning, me and some friends had this conversation the other day, you just gotta mess around with it till you get that sound you want, sometimes you have to play through it and later on the sound you want will come.hope this helps, set up looks nice!

Yeah 3 out of 4 have the "exact" sound I want, it's just that 12"!! I'll try the moongels and messing with reso a little more. Thanks for the compliment on the set!! It took alot of time and money to get it right!!

The Bill of Material

13.75" K Custom Hybrids
16" HHX Evolution
21" A Sweet Ride
6" Paiste Prototype
10" Paist Prototype China
16" Oriental China
15" AAX Extreme China
16" APX O Zone
16" HHX Evolution O Zone
10" K Custom Dark Splash
16" A Custom

Gretsch Catalina Maple (Sweet for the Price) Remo Suedes w/Evans Glass Resos with EQ3 bass head and Reso. KICKPORT SHOULD BE IN THIS WEEK I HOPE
13x6.5 Yamaha Oak Musashi (Not Shown) Genera Dry HD, Puresound Snares, Hazy 300
13x7 Pork Pie Acrylic
Iron Cobra Power Glide

God has provided and I won't hide it!!!

JFunky · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2009, 12:40:47 PM »

Quote from: dude-on-drums on February 17, 2009, 12:17:16 PM

12" toms are the worst. I'm gonna try that isolation method and tune the rest of my drums to the around the 12.

...I used to say the same thing until I asked Lester Estelle jr. about it. I remember him giving me some tips on how to tune the 9"x12" maple shell. For starters, I was trying to tune it way too high.

...I've joined a new club.....11x14 problem tom. lol

xcalybur32 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2009, 12:47:55 PM »

Quote from: JFunky on February 17, 2009, 12:40:47 PM

...I used to say the same thing until I asked Lester Estelle jr. about it. I remember him giving me some tips on how to tune the 9"x12" maple shell. For starters, I was trying to tune it way too high.

...I've joined a new club.....11x14 problem tom. lol

You know that might be my problem..... but the 10" sounds so good high!

Jedi3 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2009, 12:59:20 PM »

Quote

11x14 problem tom

Tune it like a bass drum.

BEATBOXERZ · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2009, 01:02:17 PM »

You don't want to tune your drums too high. That will choke it. It may sound good to you behind the cockpit, but to the audience it will have very little depth or resonance. My 12" is nice. I found that sweet spot to were the note is very distinctive. I has body and fullness.
You have a nice kit X. Try removing the muffle rings off the toms man. It will take some getting use to because your ears have got to adjust to the newness of your toms being open, but it's worth it. You have some good wood man, let them breathe...

SabianKnight · « **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2009, 01:10:38 PM »

12" toms really are not problems they are just exact. The 12" tom is the "perfect" dimension so they really only have (1) voice for tuning that is right unlike other toms. A 12' will only sound like a 12". Most times we try to tune it too high especially when it is the first tom (say in a 12", 13", 16" setup) or if we have been previously condition to that standard setup. Treat the 12" tom like Middle "C" on the keyboard and make every other drum cater to it. The distance between your snare, 12" tom, lowest floor tom and your kick are the foundation fit any other drums around/between those. So in this case... the tonal order should typically be 10"-rack, aux snare (?), main snare, 12"-rack, 14"-floor 16"-floor, kick.

Yes, as Sticks' said the isolation method is the best start.
Let me add to that by saying you should tune to the lowest true fundamental note that 12" can get sounding good then "tune up" to the highest it can get which will be probably no more than a half turn up. not a quarter turn but a half. Also most important is to tune with a mallet to get the purest tone and most sustain... sticks give too much attack when tuning.

xcalybur32 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 17, 2009, 01:13:29 PM »

I tried but the acoustics or lack there of makes the ugly overtones more noticeable. I could just remove the 12" and put it on the side so I'll "Have so much more space for activities".

Guess the movie. ha

SabianKnight · « **Reply #16 on:** February 17, 2009, 01:16:58 PM »

Quote from: xcalybur32 on February 17, 2009, 01:13:29 PM

I tried but the acoustics or lack there of makes the ugly overtones more noticeable. I could just remove the 12" and put it on the side so I'll "Have so much more space for activities".

Guess the movie. ha

you tried what exactly?

xcalybur32 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 17, 2009, 01:28:06 PM »

Quote from: SabianKnight on February 17, 2009, 01:16:58 PM

you tried what exactly?

Playing without the "Rem-Os" sorry. I hear what your saying Sabe. I've tried the isolation method with my old set and tuned up and down but with the same muddy thud to it. At first I thought it was a bearing edge defect but when I got the new set the same thing. So I changed the type of heads, could it also be how close I have it to the kick that's choking it? Even the 10" got a little room to breathe but the 12" has less. Guess I got to keep messing around and take in all this great advice I'm getting. By the way thank you guys for the advice I really appreiciate it!!!

SabianKnight · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2009, 04:18:04 PM »

Quote from: xcalybur32 on February 17, 2009, 01:28:06 PM

Playing without the "Rem-Os" sorry. I hear what your saying Sabe. I've tried the isolation method with my old set and tuned up and down but with the same muddy thud to it. At first I thought it was a bearing edge defect but when I got the new set the same thing. So I changed the type of heads, could it also be how close I have it to the kick that's choking it? Even the 10" got a little room to breathe but the 12" has less. Guess I got to keep messing around and take in all this great advice I'm getting. By the way thank you guys for the advice I really appreiciate it!!!

That closeness to the kick can hinder some of the resonance. Again first tune it from flat to it's lowest true tone... but don't leave it there - tune it up from there. Assuming that you have properly seated/stretched both heads you should not have a problem. A 12" lives at a medium high tone that is warm. I suggest loosing the Rem-Os and using Moon-Gel. No more than 2.5 whole turns past finger-tight on the reso head and the same or less on the batter should be all you need. If you post a video/audio clip of the tom I can help you better.

drumzalicious · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2009, 11:47:00 PM »

I would really suggest starting from scratch with your whole kit with out the rem-O's. you really should learn how to tune drums with out external muffling just because in basically every situation i have been in the drums either record better in a studio. or in a live situation the project better. the only time i have muffled a tom was when i was in a session and the pitch of the tom was an overtone of the pitch my snare was tuned to so the tom would ring when i hit the snare.

check out the drum tuning bible. look it up on google for the exact address.

i would start with the 10" and work down from there get the two mounted toms to blend with each other. i personally like my two rack toms to be slightly higher and not really deep sounding because i want them to sing and project. from there i go down to the floor toms and in your case i would work down. i usually just use a 10/12/16 setup simply because all i need is singing rack toms and a thunderous floor tom.

As i said check out the drum tuning bible to learn the better effects of what changing pitches on the batter/resonant side of the head will effect and once you understand that you will learn how to fix the drum. after i gained that understanding i can honestly say that i have never had a problem tuning something on a drum set.

well actually recently i got a pearl sensitone aluminum 14x5 and its a little more tricky cause its real sensitive but other than that no problems.

Plus engineers and other musicians respect you more when you pull out a properly tuned kit. just imagine going to a gig where your using Backline equipment and you dont have your rem-O's? your soundchecking with horrible sounding drums and telling people to give you tape when tape isnt the cure its the fact that you dont know how to tune drums and everyone but you will be admitting to it and it will make you look bad.

Author Topic: Problem Tom (Read 3463 times)