Is sheet music just as good the recording lets dispel the myth

[diverse379]

I have often heard people say that the sheet music is not like the record blah blah blah

my M.O.M will often say that the sheet music is just a guide.

to be honest that is just her excuse to play the same old chords she has been playing for the last 30 years




sure 20 years ago much of the sheet music was just some simplified stuff meant to help you get the gist of the song

and I am sure there are still some music being sold like this


however
many of the song books put out by zomba and verity
are very very very accurate
the kirk franklin books the hezekiah walker books
the wow gospel books are all very acurate

case in point I know willie brown who has played guitar on more than a hundred gospel albums
and he plays in a church where the M.O.M goes strictly by the sheet music when possible

and they sometimes have debates over what chord should be played

and one time there was a chord that read as a A7#5b5 #9
the MOM wanted the guitar player to play this big chord  but Willie who was the recording guitarist on that recording recalled that he only  played three notes and the mom said that couldnt be right how can it only be three notes
but when you looked at the three notes played they made up the whole chord especially when the guitar player slid them down a half step
the two positions made up the chord

long story short
the guitar player doesent read and had no idea why his three notes ended up being spelled as such a complex chord
but the book was right he did end up playing that complex chord  using just three notes
the guitar players sound ended up getting into the chart because it was an important part of the sound


todays

sheet music
is transcribed by real professionals

who will sometimes adapt the music to fit a keyboard instrument
Wow Does this a lot I notice more than the individual artists album folios
I think because they know that the WOW books are purchased by music readers who will probably play note for note

for example
Battlefield by Normann Hutchins
is transcribed differently in Wow than it is on Hutchinsons song book
The Wow is very close but some things are left out
but this is because the Wow version is a piano arrangement
it is easier to read and play

the hutchinson version is a little more complex to read
and more satifiying to play once learned
and closer to the recording
so you cant judge all sheet music by WOW just like you cant judge all sheet music by norman hutchinson
because lets face it
the recording may have been a band
and if you are reading it as a keyboard player
you have to play something that sounds keyboard like

even though we may try to sound exactly like the record
putting in all the horn parts and fillers etc
that is cool

but the sheet music cannot be expected to do all of that
because it would be impossible to read
and everyone isnt that good to play horn parts while playing bass and trying to pad for strings as well

so many of hte transcriptions are set up to be played by a single piano player,

if you listened to the record you could probably hear one or two things that werent in the book
but that doesent mean the book isnt accurate.

when zomba gives a transcriber a track to transcribe they dont give him the albulm they give him the tracks to listen to
so he is hearing the pure tracks
some of what you hear on the record are over dubs
so to be honest what you hear on the record isnt acurate as far as what is being played

the transcriber knows you dont have three hands so why put in a part that was over dubbed over  two handed part.

if anyone else has an opinion I would like to hear it


because I feel that people who dont like sheet music just dont like to take the time to explore the sheet music


you will be surprised at the voicings and techniques you can find


another thing
maybe every sheet isnt accurate but some are
so dont throw out the baby with the bath water
there are some valuable things to get from sheet music
first of all
the choir parts will be accurate
and you will have the correct chords to go along with them

you may be able to play music that was out of you league now that you can see it

I know that was the case with me

I was playing total praise like the record
within my first year of playing because I was using the music

 
some song books I have found to be very accurate

yolanda adams
kirk franklin
donald lawrence
wow  1998-2006
John Pee KEE
norman hutchinson
Israel

[fmason3]

I first learned how to play the piano classically.  I was reading sheet music and that was it.  The whole ear thing came later.  So when I got my first job playing for a youth choir, I was heavily dependent on sheet music.  I learned Calling my name" from sheet music.  Then when I developed my ear, looking back, the sheet music was pretty accurate.

Sheet music is typically pretty good for piano-driven songs.  Like Richard Smallwood books are good and Kirk Franklin's are as well.  They're generally good for the first time around.  But you know as a musician, we don't play the second time the exact same as the first, but they don't transcribe the second verse.  That would cost more (e.g. more ink, pages, time, etc...)

But as far as a Norman Hutchins transcription, it would be pretty tough for someone to transcribe Mike Bereal or Jason White's playing.  I'm just now beginning to wrap my mind around it....kinda.  So a lot of times in those situations, they'll just give you the choir parts and a bass line as piano accompaniment.

[diverse379]

I first learned how to play the piano classically.  I was reading sheet music and that was it.  The whole ear thing came later.  So when I got my first job playing for a youth choir, I was heavily dependent on sheet music.  I learned Calling my name" from sheet music.  Then when I developed my ear, looking back, the sheet music was pretty accurate.

Sheet music is typically pretty good for piano-driven songs.  Like Richard Smallwood books are good and Kirk Franklin's are as well.  They're generally good for the first time around.  But you know as a musician, we don't play the second time the exact same as the first, but they don't transcribe the second verse.  That would cost more (e.g. more ink, pages, time, etc...)

But as far as a Norman Hutchins transcription, it would be pretty tough for someone to transcribe Mike Bereal or Jason White's playing.  I'm just now beginning to wrap my mind around it....kinda.  So a lot of times in those situations, they'll just give you the choir parts and a bass line as piano accompaniment.

I have to disagree on a couple of points
calling my name in the new hezekiah song book
has the second verse written out

so do the kirk franklin books

the wow books take the time to print out several pages making sure the entire song is transcribed


I do know that there are folios that do what you say

but you should explain that those are usually
sheets that are sold seperately by companies such as ntime music and sheet music plus


but the actual song books put out by verity and zomba
do have all the versus and many of the changes and nuances

wow had no problem transcribing one of kim burrels songs although very very hard to read it was all there.

I will concede that all of mike bereals or jasons whites playing may not have gotten throuhgh
but these companies will supply chord voicings that capture the essence of the chords

for example they may write the chord in as a slash chord or as a different voicings but over all

they keep it pretty real

I know that when i listen to a track and hear some unusual lick or progression
I can find it in the music

with one of these song books
but there are times when I may not find a horn line or a string run



I am not trying to argue but I want to really help stop the spread of the assumption that you cant learn a song properly from sheet music

[T-Block]

Well, even though the sheet music is pretty accurate, you won't be able to teach the feel of the song from just looking at the sheet music alone.

[B3Wannabe]

Well, even though the sheet music is pretty accurate, you won't be able to teach the feel of the song from just looking at the sheet music alone.

Huh? If it's transcribed properly, you could. Sheet music is more than just notes on paper, it covers everything from intensity and loudness variations to speed and "feeling". The problem a person may have is if they don't know those "feelings" properly. If sheet music say play "lively" and you don't know what "lively" means then you're going to miss something.

...as one that has a lot of sheet music--although I can't read really well, I can attest that a lot of times the music is pretty accurate, but every now and then they miss a point.

I rely more on my ear, but I do plan to get back into reading my sheet music. I just usually learn a song faster with my ear than reading. I guess I'm illiterate.

[Ramar]

Well, like it was previously stated, most sheet music is written for piano and vocals, and not the other instruments...

Imagine reading Tye Tribbett's sheet music--the piano is such a small part of most of his songs that a full score and a band is almost essential to get the song to sound right!!!

But I have found that there are lots of very accurate sheet music...

But then on the other hand, there are some that sound very little like the song at all...

For example,I have found versions of Order My Steps, Total Praise, We Fall Down, and others that were obviously transcribed/arranged by white musicians(I'm not trying to sound racist or anything);and the differences are very noticeable, like for example, altered and extended chords are often replaced basic major and minor triads

[fmason3]

I have to disagree on a couple of points
calling my name in the new hezekiah song book
has the second verse written out

so do the kirk franklin books

the wow books take the time to print out several pages making sure the entire song is transcribed


I do know that there are folios that do what you say

but you should explain that those are usually
sheets that are sold seperately by companies such as ntime music and sheet music plus

I'll keep that in mind.  It's been about 10 years since I've actually used one of those.

[Ramar]

Well, like it was previously stated, most sheet music is written for piano and vocals, and not the other instruments...

Imagine reading Tye Tribbett's sheet music--the piano is such a small part of most of his songs that a full score and a band is almost essential to get the song to sound right!!!

But I have found that there are lots of very accurate sheet music...

But then on the other hand, there are some that sound very little like the song at all...

For example,I have found versions of Order My Steps, Total Praise, We Fall Down, and others that were obviously transcribed/arranged by white "universal" musicians(I'm not trying to sound racist or anything);and the differences are very noticeable, like for example, altered and extended chords are often replaced basic major and minor triads

[T-Block]

Huh? If it's transcribed properly, you could. Sheet music is more than just notes on paper, it covers everything from intensity and loudness variations to speed and "feeling". The problem a person may have is if they don't know those "feelings" properly. If sheet music say play "lively" and you don't know what "lively" means then you're going to miss something.

In classial music yeah, but not quite so with gospel.  From the gospel sheet music that I've seen, it tells u at the beginning of the song if it's to be played lively, soft, etc.  But, it doesn't give instruction throughout the piece when to get softer (p or decrescendo) or louder like the classical stuff does.  So, in order to get a feel for the gospel stuff, u would have to listen and follow along to get a better feel for it.  That's what I'm refering to.

[diverse379]

Well, like it was previously stated, most sheet music is written for piano and vocals, and not the other instruments...

Imagine reading Tye Tribbett's sheet music--the piano is such a small part of most of his songs that a full score and a band is almost essential to get the song to sound right!!!

But I have found that there are lots of very accurate sheet music...

But then on the other hand, there are some that sound very little like the song at all...

For example,I have found versions of Order My Steps, Total Praise, We Fall Down, and others that were obviously transcribed/arranged by white musicians(I'm not trying to sound racist or anything);and the differences are very noticeable, like for example, altered and extended chords are often replaced basic major and minor triads

oh really

we need to get the names of these publications
so we can trash talk them

are you referring to the praise fake books?

because I know those songs are in the wow and they are accurate
but i have a praise fake book and it dumbs down the chords incredibly

I suppose that is just so the pianist can play simply without too much fuss


great point I meant to speak on that but couldnt find the words

some songs the piano plays a very small role

so you as the pianist have to find a balance between
playing the choir parts and the instrumentation
the help in these cases will come from the written chord symbols
which will provide what all the instruments come together to form.
in other words if you have some horn parts and some string parts and a piano chank all hitting in a measure
they end up coming together to form some sort of chord
and this is usually printed in the form of a chord symbol
so even though you as the pianist arent playing all the parts you can still comp and play the song with the intention of the composer

this is what I call a song arranged for piano
because you have to make choices as to what the piano needs to do to still propel the music correctly

this has been done throughout the centuries whenever a symphonic piece of music was played by the piano
it had to be arranged for piano
often runs are selected so that you will have the feel of the piece
I want to piggy back on something that B3 wannabee said

sometimes the sheet music is so accurate you can actually capture the feel more than if you just listened to the track

an example would be some crazy left and right hand syncopated 16th note rhythm
now for me I am not that funky I have a laid back funk that aggressive stuff I have to sit with
the sheet music helps me immensly figure out exactly where my hands need to be on which beats and so on,

If left just to my ear I would probably just play something close or maybe not close at all but just something that sort of works

I do understand what t block means though
this like how do you know whether to play the notes swung or straight

this is I suppose a matter of experience and understanding genres

but we as musicians need to be more comfortable playing from both mediums becuase
we would limit ourselves greatly if we could only play what we hear.
as opposed to also being able to bring to life a piece of music purely from the page.

I think the concensus is in

some of the later sheet music (the last ten year)

especially that printed by Zomba and Verity
are very accurate

[betnich]

But I have found that there are lots of very accurate sheet music...

But then on the other hand, there are some that sound very little like the song at all...

For example,I have found versions of Order My Steps, Total Praise, We Fall Down, and others that were obviously transcribed/arranged by white musicians(I'm not trying to sound racist or anything);and the differences are very noticeable, like for example, altered and extended chords are often replaced basic major and minor triads

True, mainstream music houses often dumb down the chords (and the melodies/rhythm) ...but look at it this way, this makes it more accessible to beginning players.

Then again, I have had enough arguments about chords, so when learning a song if possible I try to get both sheet music and recording...

[fmason3]

True, mainstream music houses often dumb down the chords (and the melodies/rhythm) ...but look at it this way, this makes it more accessible to beginning players.

Then again, I have had enough arguments about chords, so when learning a song if possible I try to get both sheet music and recording...

Sometimes I wish they wouldn't dumb it down.  I was a beginner at gospel music when I was reading from those books but I had already been reading music for 10 years.  Had they printed it, I would have been able to read it.

I've had a few arguments about chords too.  I used to play under a director that would buy the songbooks to teach choir parts from it so that I didn't have to do it.  But every now and then I'd be like "um...that's not right" and he'd be like "well that's what's printed" and I'm like "well that's not what they're singing on the recording, but if that's what you want the choir to sing, I'll alter my chord to fit with what you all will be singing" 

I knew my role...

[B3Wannabe]

Sometimes I wish they wouldn't dumb it down.  I was a beginner at gospel music when I was reading from those books but I had already been reading music for 10 years.  Had they printed it, I would have been able to read it.

I've had a few arguments about chords too.  I used to play under a director that would buy the songbooks to teach choir parts from it so that I didn't have to do it.  But every now and then I'd be like "um...that's not right" and he'd be like "well that's what's printed" and I'm like "well that's not what they're singing on the recording, but if that's what you want the choir to sing, I'll alter my chord to fit with what you all will be singing" 

I knew my role...

Sweet!

[betnich]

Saw a version of Kirk Franklin's "The Reason Why we Sing" in a mainline church publication. It was simplified, and totally messed up the chord progression in the chorus.

There's a more accurate version in the African American Heritage Hymnal...no.496...

[diverse379]

Sometimes I wish they wouldn't dumb it down.  I was a beginner at gospel music when I was reading from those books but I had already been reading music for 10 years.  Had they printed it, I would have been able to read it.

I've had a few arguments about chords too.  I used to play under a director that would buy the songbooks to teach choir parts from it so that I didn't have to do it.  But every now and then I'd be like "um...that's not right" and he'd be like "well that's what's printed" and I'm like "well that's not what they're singing on the recording, but if that's what you want the choir to sing, I'll alter my chord to fit with what you all will be singing" 

I knew my role...

this is funny and at the same time profound
because what if you were right
but of course you follow the leaders instructions

what if the transcriber heard wrong?

or what if you just had a more intersting chord that would have supported your choir part suggestion.


to be honest I am more like your old director
I tend to go by the written page.
why?
it is a safer bet
even if a note or two are off
these are the scores that were approved by the label and hopefully the artist

of course if there is just something blatantly bad  (which I have never encountered in my 50 or so song books)
then I would make an adjustment.

there was a case where a song put out by GIA publications (there is no recording of the song)
we were learning it at hampton university ministers conference
We caught an error and we changed it.

Case in point just because your reading dont turn off your brains, or your ears.  You have to do what sounds good.
If you are playing some hip chords often you may have to change the choir part to suit your chord, However I must state for the record
that It is far better to play the recording as written most of the time then it is for you to constantly change every song to the way you feel it should be.

I will explain this argument, If you changed every song that your church did yes you would have a sound but you run the danger of creating a one note church.  by this I mean every song you play has the same types of changes and runs and sound.
I love James hall but I would hate to go to a JAmes hall concert because the music all sounds the same to me.

Also when we learn new things we tend to run them into the ground.
by teaching according to the recording we do a few things
1) we honor the composer
2) we ensure a variety of composition will go forth in our churches
3) we allow ourselves to learn other composers points of view. and styles of harmonization.

I fellowship with Calvary Baptist church in Jamaica Queens
their band is banging
in the beginning the band members rebelled against The director's insistence that they play according to the record
but now they are one of the tightest and well known church music ministries in the area
even better than the famous Allen cathedrals band though fewer members

why Because their attention to detail is amazing they have learned to pull out every nuance
now they do depart from time to time but their taste level is just through roof

it is like a young writer who wants to go and write a novel
usually it is only after reading novel after novel that their talent begins to shine.

this is just merely an opinion and I amn in no way saying anyone is wrong for doing something different
I am just talking about what I do why and how.

[under13]

Better than Allen's Band? I'ma have to check em out. What time does thier service start?

[betnich]

Lots of wisdom there....guess I try to strike a balance between following the track and being a slave to the written music (especially if you 'know' that note/chord is wrong!)

In some smaller churches w/less experienced singers and musicians, the praise ministry is often asked to simplify the arrangement for the congregation...

[fmason3]

this is funny and at the same time profound
because what if you were right
but of course you follow the leaders instructions

what if the transcriber heard wrong?

or what if you just had a more intersting chord that would have supported your choir part suggestion.

I was right.  I know I was.  My ear is pretty decent.  But the chord in the book worked.  So I didn't fight it.  It wasn't worth it.  Now had it been something crazy, I would have been like "uhh....yeah...about that chord..."

[diverse379]

Better than Allen's Band? I'ma have to check em out. What time does thier service start?

the services are at 11:00
they have one at 7:30 but that is not a full band

also you may want to check out the rehearsal on thursdays
I believe they start at 6:00

that is how I learned by attending their rehearsals

back in the day when Nate MCnair was on keys  Hezekiahs first MD for eleven years
Victor Simonson on piano   (was playing for Richard smallwood last I heard
willie brown on guitar   The guitarist for most of Donnie mclurkin records
lonnie christian on drums  Chubby checkers road drummer for about five yeaars
and Roger holland masters of music holder and composer and former president of hampton ministers conference.


these guys were no light weights
victor and nate are no longer there but I am sure Roger has found some other phenomenal talent on keys
he insists that musicians be able to read and play by ear and are extremely proficient

[Spiritfingaz]

When I first started learning gospel music I had never played by ear and only relied on sheet music. It greatly limited me in several ways, but helped me in others. On one hand, some of the sheet music was written in a different key. The funny thing is there would be a note in italics at the bottom saying, "The original key was E major, but it has been transposed to F to make it more playable..." I thought it was the craziest thing in the world because if I couldn't play by ear and my sight reading wasn't skilled enough to transpose on the spot, I couldn't be in a band that was led by an organist/keyboardist that only played by ear and only in the key the song was originally recorded in. I've spoken to some older musicians and they shared my frustration with inaccurate transcriptions. For some seasoned musicians, you may have the Love Alive transcription series, for example, I believe the intro to "Changed" is not accurate and the transcription to "Jesus Christ is the Way" is in the wrong key.
Although some of the transcriptions had errors, they definitely served their purpose. For those who can't play by ear, but only read can at least read the chords and notes and listen to the recording for feeling or just attempt to guage the feeling the same way a classical pianist does. If you study Beethoven, Mozart, Gershwin, even Thelonius Monk and Art Tatum and you only read the sheet music after a while, you get a feel for their knacks and interpretations of music and therefore have an insight on the dynamics, pulse, and feel/flow of the music. I think the same can be said for Hezekiah when he had the same MD, or Kurt Carr when he used Maurice Rogers, Donald with Kevin Bond, Donald with Cedric and Danny...and the list goes on. Artists have signature sounds, you can get a feel for where the sheet music is going sometimes by virtue of it being gospel music and the way a chordal progression sounds.
I will say the sheet music helped me because now all I do is play gospel by ear, but all other genres I read. Reading gospel sheet music helped develop a systematic approach to the gospel sound and also key chords because everything is always relative especially when you're in a genre like gospel...unless you're referring to the new age patterns from Justin Savage, Soundcheck, Asaph Ward, etc.
These days, I think the best advice is to learn by ear, and then go buy the sheet music and test your ear and your sight....at least that's what I do, its a fun challenge for me because sometimes I don't hear all the notes, like the beginning of "The Blessing of Abraham"...I knew the concept Danny was playing and most of the right notes, but maybe one note was missing or I had one note too much.
On a side note, the Gospel Today "Praise is My Weapon" Songbook has AWESOME transcriptions of the Cedric Thompson sound...the song "Born to Set Me Free" is transcribed perfectly with meter changes, broken triplets and all....