Help with simple progression...

[tek_uk]

Hi all,
i'm playing a simple progression in a song. It is Cm - Bb - Ab
First, what key is this in??? Is it Eb?

Also, i am trying to spice up that progression.
So far i played:
Bb D Eb G
Bb D F
Ab Bb C Eb

Any suggestion on how to make it more interesting?
I was trying to insert a 2-5-1 before the Ab using Tritones but then it implies Bbm and it is Bb major in the progression. can i still do that?

Thanks in advance

Laurent

[4hisglory]

This is what it looks like to me:

Bb D Eb G.......EbM7.........1
Bb D F..........Bb...........5
Ab Bb C Eb......Ab add 2 ....4

[sjonathan02]

Yes, it looks like it's in Eb.

As for using the 2-5-1, that will work. I'm not sure how you would utilize tri-tones for the 2-5-1, though. 

[chevonee]

If you want to figure out how to add tritone substitutions try reading this, it may help...
http://www.hearandplay.com/main/heres-a-method-thats-helping-musicians-play-tritones-in-bigger-chord-progressions

[Fenix]

Yes, it looks like it's in Eb.

As for using the 2-5-1, that will work. I'm not sure how you would utilize tri-tones for the 2-5-1, though. 

He could use a tri-tone substitution of the Bb.

Check this out man:

Original Progression:

Bb D Eb G
Bb D F
Ab Bb C Eb

New Progression 1 (with a tri-tone) using the Left hand/ Right Hand method of chord-writing:

Eb/ Bb D Eb G

Bb/ Bb D F

Ab D/ B E Ab- The RH chord is a simple E major chord which is the tri-tone sub of a Bb7 chord.

Ab/ Ab Bb C Eb

New Progression  (with a 2-5-1 change back to the Ab chord) using the Left hand/ Right Hand method of chord-writing:

Eb/ Bb D Eb G

Bb/ Bb D F

Eb/ Bb Db F G
 
Ab/ Ab Bb C Eb

Lemme know if you have any questions.

[chevonee]

Good shot Fenix, I like those!! Here's what I came up with

Try this...I used some of your chords too..in red
Key of Eb
D/C F Bb (7)
G/B Eb F Bb (3)
C/Bb D Eb G (6)
B/G Db F (b6)
Bb/Ab C Db F (5)
Eb/G C Db F (1)
Ab/Ab Bb C Eb (4)

[SoundofJoy]

The old guy hears a stir, comes out his room and adds his two cents.....

Bass /LH / RH

C / E Bb / G C Eb
C / E Bb / F Bb D
F / Eb A / D G C
Bb / F Ab / Eb Ab C Eb
Eb / Bb Eb / F G Bb Eb


The old guy goes back into his room.....

[chevonee]

The old guy hears a stir, comes out his room and adds his two cents.....

Bass /LH / RH

C / E Bb / G C Eb
C / E Bb / F Bb D
F / Eb A / D G C
Bb / F Ab / Eb Ab C Eb
Eb / Bb Eb / F G Bb Eb


The old guy goes back into his room.....

You're not an old guy...you're a LEGENDARY MUSICIAN...MY HERO!!!!

[NJDBalla]

The old guy hears a stir, comes out his room and adds his two cents.....

Bass /LH / RH

C / E Bb / G C Eb
C / E Bb / F Bb D
F / Eb A / D G C
Bb / F Ab / Eb Ab C Eb
Eb / Bb Eb / F G Bb Eb


The old guy goes back into his room.....

LOL   Nice chords... They sound great... Fenix's chords sound good too

[tek_uk]

Thanks All,

started to play some of the suggestions and they sound great.

While i'm here... any scale/run ideas??? 

[sjonathan02]

He could use a tri-tone substitution of the Bb.

Isn't the Bb chord a minor chord since we're talking about a 2-5-1 (which is usually a minor, major, major chord progression)?


Or, are you saying that it doesn't matter? 

[Fenix]

Isn't the Bb chord a minor chord since we're talking about a 2-5-1 (which is usually a minor, major, major chord progression)?


Or, are you saying that it doesn't matter? 

Hmm...

My answer: Lets look at the movement again.

Bb/ Bb D F

Eb/ Bb Db F

Ab/ Ab C Eb

I think people get confused by this because it SOUNDS like a 2-5-1 progression. However try and isolate the Bb as a separate chord on its own and has nothing to do with the last two chords. Think of it merely as a 5-1 progression with the Eb7 being the 5 chord and the Ab being your 1 chord.

The ultimate aim is to get to the Ab and one of the easiest ways to do that is to use a chord that is a PERFECT 5th above it.

Now to use good voice leading i had to turn that Bb into a minor chord, ergo:

Eb/ Bb Db F

The reason i did this was because its not enough for the chord to be a mere V chord, it has to be a V7 chord. If you look at that chord carefully you will see that its an Eb9 chord with teh Db as the flat 7.

Hope that clears it up. If it doesn't lemme know.

[sjonathan02]

Hmm...

My answer: Lets look at the movement again.

Bb/ Bb D F

Eb/ Bb Db F

Ab/ Ab C Eb

I think people get confused by this because it SOUNDS like a 2-5-1 progression. However try and isolate the Bb as a separate chord on its own and has nothing to do with the last two chords. Think of it merely as a 5-1 progression with the Eb7 being the 5 chord and the Ab being your 1 chord.

The ultimate aim is to get to the Ab and one of the easiest ways to do that is to use a chord that is a PERFECT 5th above it.

Now to use good voice leading i had to turn that Bb into a minor chord, ergo:

Eb/ Bb Db F

The reason i did this was because its not enough for the chord to be a mere V chord, it has to be a V7 chord. If you look at that chord carefully you will see that its an Eb9 chord with teh Db as the flat 7.

Hope that clears it up. If it doesn't lemme know.

It doesn't.


The OP stated he was (or wanted) to use a 2-5-1 to get to the Ab. In order to do that the 2 would be (or is usually) minor.

The OP went on to say that he wanted to use tri-tone subs for the 2-5-1 which lead to my question 'how does one use a tri-tone for a minor chord?'; especially when one uses the 3rd and the 7th for a tri-tone.


Am I clearer?

[tek_uk]

Actually the original progression is Cm - Bb - Ab

I then listed some voicings i used but they can be ignored, just consider the above progression and how you'd approach it.

Laurent

[Fenix]

It doesn't.


The OP stated he was (or wanted) to use a 2-5-1 to get to the Ab. In order to do that the 2 would be (or is usually) minor.

The OP went on to say that he wanted to use tri-tone subs for the 2-5-1 which lead to my question 'how does one use a tri-tone for a minor chord?'; especially when one uses the 3rd and the 7th for a tri-tone.


Am I clearer?

Again this goes back to what i said initially, what he THINKS is a 2-5-1 is not a true 2-5-1. He heard that "2-5-1" sound and THOUGHT it was a 2-5-1.

I understand completely what he meant. Its a common way of moving from the 5 to the 4 chord by using the 1 chord as a passing chord. This movement produces what SOUNDS like a 2-5-1 progression but it really isn't a 2-5-1 progression, it just SOUNDS like one. We should not be confused by the sound. It is usually done very fast so folks will hear it and think its a 2-5-1. It isn't. Its just moving from one major chord to a dominant chord and then to another major chord. Simple.

[tek_uk]

Ok, so to make sure i understand...
The progression is
Cm
Bb
Ab

Since it has 2 major chords next to each other, they must be IV and V chords (the only 2 Maj chords next to each other in the scale) so it is in Eb. Correct?

So now if we want to introduce some movement before going to the Ab (the IV chord), we can play the I before (so Eb). Am i still right?

I would have thought you could play a 2-5 before the Ab but then again it implies that the 2 would be Bb Minor and in the progression it is a major chord so i guess that's not possible.
So instead we are playing a 5-1-4 is that right????? 

[Fenix]

So instead we are playing a 5-1-4 is that right????? 

Exactly!! Even though it SOUNDS like a 2-5-1, it not a true 2-5-1. It can be confusing to folks who do not know their basic theory very well.

 

[sjonathan02]

Exactly!! Even though it SOUNDS like a 2-5-1, it not a true 2-5-1. It can be confusing to folks who do not know their basic theory very well.

 

So, are you trying to say that one CAN'T play a major Bb chord, then play a 2-5-1 going to the Ab.

[Fenix]

So, are you trying to say that one CAN'T play a major Bb chord, then play a 2-5-1 going to the Ab.

Why do that? Just play your 5-1-4 and bingo!

[cas10a]

I'm a little confused on what is being asked...If it's the key of Eb, it seems its been assumed the bass is C, making the first chord Cm9, but no bass note was given in the original post...So lets just say it's an EbM7, the progression being 1-5-4...

Couldn't you do both 1-2-5-1-4 or also 1-2-5-b5-4...to me it would be a question of how much you would want to throw in the progression, how much time is allowed...ie, placement and chord selection.