creating sounds and performance layers and splits

[diverse379]

I used to watch NAte mcnair some of you younger cats dont know him

but he was the musical director for Hezekiah walker for about 11 years during those early days

nate is a proficient musician
but his real gifting is his ability to choose sounds and create special layers


for example he uses bells or marimbas combined with bass and steel drums to get a very nice piano type texture

or he may use some trombones to get a nice horn section going while using a tuba in the bass
to get a new orleans feel


I am looking to create some new nuances

right now I use a piano horns bass layer with a flute in the top octave but voiced in the mid range of the keyboard

this allows me to solo with a the flute or muted trumpet in the range of the piano chords
for
and my touch sensitivity is set pretty high so i will have to hit pretty hard to bring out the horns

this way I can bring them in when the music gets to a high point

I believe the key is listening to ensembles

but the way the keyboards are so advanced you can do some very creative things

for example I also used a muted trumpet in the top two octaves of my board
transposed down an octave so i can sound it in the mid range

I used rhodes keyboards in the center of the board

with a string bass

and a sax section in the same range as the keyboard plus five notes

so that when I get to the top of the sax range they are by themselves without any help

I keep the bass all the way through the whole range up to because the extra percussion gives groove to the patch

as if there may be a guitar comping with the keyboard

Can some of you share some of your setups

I am looking for new ideas I am not much of a keyboard person

[aminstrelspraise]

Wow!!!!!! That's awesome. I remember Nate Mcnair. Nate on Keys and Melvin/Joeworm on organ was a nice combination.

[Fenix]

WOW D, the most creative layers/ splits i have ever done is piano with strings and bass. I would love to layer in church but i can't even figure out this wretched MO8.

[diverse379]

WOW D, the most creative layers/ splits i have ever done is piano with strings and bass. I would love to layer in church but i can't even figure out this wretched MO8.

wow yall are funny


well here is one more hopefully someone will give me one for my troubles

I call this layer churchin it

it is an organ layered with a piano and bass

I believe the best approach is to do a full layer no split

just over lap so it is as if everyone is playing on the same level

the organ will be padding the keyboard parts and doubling the bass part

experiment with letting the bass play by itself without any help from the piano and organ


a note on  bass
for ballads slow attack bass sounds are great for ballads

jaco used it occasionally it like a bass player using a synth effect to create a soft attack instead of a percussive one


another note on bass sounds

we tend to gravitate toward pluck and thumping bass sounds

but realistically
for a good bass sound you should use a rounder sound
because you are trying to create bottom
and thumping and plucking
is a solo technique  bass players use

the normally dont use it during a song while other members are playing

the key to effective layers is studying how ensembles come together and play

[diverse379]

one other point dont have to many solo sounds featured in your layers

if you want piano to be the lead sound with the organ padding in the background

turn the volume level down on the organpatch

and select an organ patch that wont be too muddy in the range it will be played

vice versa if you want to the organ to lead

also dont be afraid to layer other unorthodox sounds to go with your acoustic imitations

there are some nice lead sounds and synthy pads that can work well with your string patches

if you own a roland or a yamaha

you have full control to create and select zones that your layers will function

your imagination is your only limit

[keyboardking]

sounds awesome diverse!...one question how long did it take you to do all that lol

[diverse379]

sounds awesome diverse!...one question how long did it take you to do all that lol

I guess it takes some time maybe an hour to really get it right if you know what you are doing less time
it really helps if you know what you are looking to create

basically you listen to a song by a group or you catch a band and hear them and you say i would like to duplicate that sound scape

like the slow bass jaco thing
i heard that so I knew what I wanted it was easy to recreate it


and you get to work so there is a lot of tweaking

but it is worth the time when you think of it

my gospel time and gospel ballad patch see a lot of duty

and there arent many other people who will get that exact sound because i created and tweaked it for my playing style

so if it takes you an hour to put it together and a few revisits to make adjustments but you use the sound for three years then you have made a justified sacrifice of time

yesterday i was trying to make a new combo but scratched it thats the worst
when you put in an hour then just erase everything to start over because you went to far out and its just better to start over

[docjohn]

Hey D,some great points(as usual -U be da man!)  .I've used few of these in past,and working on them with new XS motif our MOM bought and is letting me use.  Lower octave  piano,rhodes,organ with bass-(varied acoustic,slap)  with volume to emphasize to taste each part,middle octave  horns with stabs,falls,according to key pressure layered with organ or piano.Another good point  split organ sounds to comp with correct chording range for left hand and solo with right hand ,put  velocity  sensitive layer  over top.MOM just did this last week for some brass/organ stuff which came out pretty good.My old korg M1 had some patches like this wih multiple instruments spread out which could give a pretty fair Chicago,Blood Sweat,Tears ,tower of Power sounds with like 8 note poly=a pretty amazing  feature.They varied the attack,delay,used some combis-pretty ingenious

[diverse379]

Hey D,some great points(as usual -U be da man!)  .I've used few of these in past,and working on them with new XS motif our MOM bought and is letting me use.  Lower octave  piano,rhodes,organ with bass-(varied acoustic,slap)  with volume to emphasize to taste each part,middle octave  horns with stabs,falls,according to key pressure layered with organ or piano.Another good point  split organ sounds to comp with correct chording range for left hand and solo with right hand ,put  velocity  sensitive layer  over top.MOM just did this last week for some brass/organ stuff which came out pretty good.My old korg M1 had some patches like this wih multiple instruments spread out which could give a pretty fair Chicago,Blood Sweat,Tears ,tower of Power sounds with like 8 note poly=a pretty amazing  feature.They varied the attack,delay,used some combis-pretty ingenious

I knew you would come through Doc

question when you say lower octave i understand that to mean the lowest octave of the piano
but are the instruments ranged for that region in other words when you play them in the lower octave does it sound like you are playing in the lower octave or did you transpose them to sound as if they were in the middle

same question for the horns were they transposed to sound as if they were in the same octave range as the instruments in the lower octave

if so this is an interesting approach especially with the falls (that is when the horns fall off like a glissando descending)

I l;ike the idea of having two set ups on the same patch

organ and piano and organ and horns

it allows you to have a completely different arrangement of instruments  for the verse and  drive or chorus whatever

thanks for the tip Doc john

[diverse379]

WOW D, the most creative layers/ splits i have ever done is piano with strings and bass. I would love to layer in church but i can't even figure out this wretched MO8.

I wish I could help you with the yamaha
I am a roland man

so I know very little about your board But I do know you should be able to do a quick edit

if you enter into your edit parameters
you should see the sounds used for the existing performance patches

look for words like zones
which means octave range
each patch used in a performance
can be transposed
which would allow you to create up to four zones
all patches playing in the same octave range

its like having four one and a half  octave instruments


if you have a 76 key board

you can have three two octave set ups
and one one octave patch at the top

giving you a lot of flexibility

Like I said in another thread
I look at keyboards like toys

so you may as well play with them

[docjohn]

Yes D,it varies with 61,73,88 note controller and what range you need;and whether solo or group.For example;using a 61 note board in a group;if you use lowest 2 octaves for piano sound that would be about the 2,3 or 4th  octaves on a real piano;depending on how you want to comp.Same with organ sounds,might want to octave switch depending on if your playing single notes or comps. With brass sounds i use from about 2nd A to one octave above middle C,the real range of these instruments;above that sounds generally thin out too much.Again,octave shift the patch for good hand position.Here's a GREAT way to get great horns- put a bari sax for left hand with brass on top for right hand;play single notes or sustained for bari parts.Think-your stilla young man from tower of power.hope this blesses you even a 1/10 of how you've blessed me bro

[themidiroom]

I wish I could help you with the yamaha
I am a roland man

so I know very little about your board But I do know you should be able to do a quick edit

if you enter into your edit parameters
you should see the sounds used for the existing performance patches

I used to do keyboard splits and it got to the point that I'd spend way too much time setting them up as I played with 3 bands and different songs required different sounds.  I found it was easier to play two or three keyboards and then sounds can be changed and/or chosen on the fly.  Now if you're an aux gospel keyboardist, then you could probably setup a performance split and use it on most everything but that didn't work well for me .

[docjohn]

man i feel you on this Midi!!!! on my alesis i had splits saved by  which band i would be playing with,patch starting with 1 =solo,2 =church,3 club  and on and on-yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[musallio]

Normally, at church when it's just me, I use the Bass lead.
I then layer that with Fretless Bass. Then I split the Fretless Bass (I've tweaked that a bit to produce a modulated sound)..I layer that bass  with House Bass.
For slow songs I just Layer the whole thing with the Percussive Organ...

I'll go thru my other layered & split sounds & post them later..

[Fenix]

man i feel you on this Midi!!!! on my alesis i had splits saved by  which band i would be playing with,patch starting with 1 =solo,2 =church,3 club  and on and on-yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[musallio]

iOW Fenix, he set up different sounds on different banks for all the various occasions (soloing, club , church etc) & it was a very hectic process..so maybe just better to use more than 1 board..

rite doc

[diverse379]

Normally, at church when it's just me, I use the Bass lead.
I then layer that with Fretless Bass. Then I split the Fretless Bass (I've tweaked that a bit to produce a modulated sound)..I layer that bass  with House Bass.
For slow songs I just Layer the whole thing with the Percussive Organ...

I'll go thru my other layered & split sounds & post them later..

so you use a bass lead?

and that sounds like keys up in the middle of the board?

sometimes I know certain bass sounds are very usable all accross a board

for example I used to have the roland bass and drums sound module
and there was a bass patch that sounded like horns when played up in the middle of the board

[musallio]

so you use a bass lead?

and that sounds like keys up in the middle of the board?

sometimes I know certain bass sounds are very usable all accross a board

for example I used to have the roland bass and drums sound module
and there was a bass patch that sounded like horns when played up in the middle of the board

The bass lead sounds like horns..
They just love that sound here..
just modulate it a beat & they wouldn't want to hear of anything else
the nice thing about that is that you sound really great by just playing your simple triads on the RH & doing a coupla bass runs on the RH..
I just play that sound at church & don't practice the style of playing because it doesn't create much room for growth.

also, the sound combo is great because you can change the mood of the song by just playing your bass in the higher registers etc.

For some house  music grooves, I split the stereo piano sound with House bass. I then layer the house bass with the slap bass sound..
Otherwise instead of the stereo piano, I just use synth brass sounds or any appropriate sax sound.

For smooth jazz grooves, I use the Clavi. sound. I split that with the Slap Bass..it gives a very nice mellow sound.
Alternativley, I use the electric piano/ tremelo piano sound & split it with the slap bass.


ok, I have to go & review the other sounds I've saved.

[docjohn]

if you have a good rhodes sound,it works good for leads and comps,but sounds good down in bass register too for some tunes

[docjohn]

oopppps!   That's one reason so hot to get my own motif XS,think that's the ONE board that could do every thing I want.Maybe that and a Nord,especially the C1.Pray LORD loosens $$$$$ some sheckles  DR J's way and that I sell all mystuff@fair price(for me and the buyer)