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Author Topic: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!  (Read 14345 times)

Offline seemunny

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #80 on: June 06, 2008, 01:20:28 AM »
NO

When people use theory, they THINK about the rules and principles of music theory, then apply it to their fingers.

When people play by ear, they usually dont have to think as hard, They just play it almost naturaly.

Thats Just how I see it.

lol Naw man! I said "yall were splitting hairs" to the point that....you could say just about Anything had some theory "technically speaking".

Because, if you think about it, when people say "play by ear", they just mean, "never learned how to read notation". Therefore, "playing be ear" = sight, sound, and discovery. And when you hear something, then you attempt to play it....once you finally learn it, you start to develop a personal system.

For instance, you might know at certain places in a song that you can play "certain notes". You don't have a NAME for the notes, but the name might be "the pentatonic scale". That name is a part of theory, and you had NO CLUE! You just knew it sounded good!lol

So my whole point is: When T-block asked in a hair splitting kinda way (lol) if you were sure that theory wasn't around FIRST, my example might be part of what he was referring to.

Of course i understand that theory is a system that someone(s) gave thought to, in terms of figuring out how music works....but ear players on a much smaller, personal level, do the same thing! lol...But they haven't given it names, and nor can they normally take it as far as "currently known theory along with eary", because "There's no need to reinvent the wheel, when it's already been invented for you!" lol

This was a lighthearted response to a post. I encourage ALL musicians to learn a certain level of theory. Because as i said previously somewhere: "theory & eary" work together as a TEAM! One lifts the other, and the other lifts the one. And however much you already know by ear, the theory will only "upgrade" it, and help you get to that next level. 8)

Offline musallio

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #81 on: June 06, 2008, 06:09:41 AM »
lol Naw man! I said "yall were splitting hairs" to the point that....you could say just about Anything had some theory "technically speaking".

Because, if you think about it, when people say "play by ear", they just mean, "never learned how to read notation". Therefore, "playing be ear" = sight, sound, and discovery. And when you hear something, then you attempt to play it....once you finally learn it, you start to develop a personal system.

For instance, you might know at certain places in a song that you can play "certain notes". You don't have a NAME for the notes, but the name might be "the pentatonic scale". That name is a part of theory, and you had NO CLUE! You just knew it sounded good!lol

So my whole point is: When T-block asked in a hair splitting kinda way (lol) if you were sure that theory wasn't around FIRST, my example might be part of what he was referring to.

Of course i understand that theory is a system that someone(s) gave thought to, in terms of figuring out how music works....but ear players on a much smaller, personal level, do the same thing! lol...But they haven't given it names, and nor can they normally take it as far as "currently known theory along with eary", because "There's no need to reinvent the wheel, when it's already been invented for you!" lol

This was a lighthearted response to a post. I encourage ALL musicians to learn a certain level of theory. Because as i said previously somewhere: "theory & eary" work together as a TEAM! One lifts the other, and the other lifts the one. And however much you already know by ear, the theory will only "upgrade" it, and help you get to that next level. 8)


From the bass forum..

 Re: to the theory heads
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2008, 02:38:53 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bottom line is:

Learning to play should be the best of both worlds. Because, since music is "sound", you obviously have to use your ears. But to become more proficient faster, theory can assist you.

When you understand some theory, it's not separated from your ear. In fact, your ear & theory will work in tandem with one another. One will boost the other, and the other will boost the one (so to speak).

You will learn aurally, then observe & dissect it intellectually. Your brain has stored it in two ways different ways now! You are better off, not worse off.

On a scale from 1 to 10, you ear might be at a level 4, but with theory, you can actually PLAY something at a level 8 (chords & progressions, etc...) - before you can even hear it yet!....THEN, you ear will eventually start to "catch up" with it.

When you purposely allow yourself to do it purely by ear, you are at the mercy of "waiting for the spirit to hit & waiting for new inspiration", before you can progress! With theory, BEFORE your ear gets there, you already have several intellectual options to pursue, and again, your ear will eventually catch up!

That's how your "ear & theory" works in tandem with one another! "The Dynamic Duo", as it were.
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Offline Wolfram

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #82 on: June 06, 2008, 07:04:47 AM »
I guess my response to anyone that believes that playing by ear is good enough would be this:

Is it fear or laziness or pride that is your road block?

FEAR - You are afraid to try.  You are afraid to fail.  You are afraid to admit that there are holes in your playing.  You are afraid that someone may find out that there are whole in your playing.  You are afraid that you are not a fly as you thought you were.  You are afraid that you might realize how little you truly understood at the begining.  You are afraid of working hard.  You are afraid of commitment.  You are afraid that you might be missing something.  You are afraid to admit that someone may have something that you need. 

LAZINESS:  It takes too much time.  It takes too much effort.  Theory is too complicated.  I'd rather go __________.  I will start this next week, month, or tomorrow...

EGO:  I am 'da bomb' already, what do I need with theory?  I don't need to know how to read music, people have to follow me.  I have done just fine without learning theory. 


Here is the problem...  This shows ignorance.  The definition of ignorance is: lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned.  Why would anyone with a gift in music want to stay 'in the dark'?  If you were good already and had great natural ability, it can only be fear, laziness or ego that would prevent you from wanting to move forward on your journey.  I can't imagine having this gift and then just settling with being as good as I could take myself without digging deeper...  I am not talking about just theory either.  I am talking about waking up and realizing that there is an ENORMOUS amount of musical resources available at your fingertips on the internet for jazz harmonies and histories.  Youtube alone is HUGE!

Anyway, say what ever you will...  I just cannot get my head around a gifted musician stalling around their own self ability when the world is so easily accessed today.  This was not the case 10 or 20 years ago.  There are no more excuses.

If you want to be a musician... BE a musican... not a person that plays at music.  Embrace the profession / art.  Learn the WHOLE craft.  Read music, learn theory, practice intercal training, play by ear, know how to improvise, compose, and create a nitch for yourself...

Offline themidiroom

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #83 on: June 06, 2008, 09:06:56 AM »
It's Friday morning and still digressing on this topic.
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Offline under13

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #84 on: June 06, 2008, 09:13:52 AM »
I guess my response to anyone that believes that playing by ear is good enough would be this:

Is it fear or laziness or pride that is your road block?

FEAR - You are afraid to try.  You are afraid to fail.  You are afraid to admit that there are holes in your playing.  You are afraid that someone may find out that there are whole in your playing.  You are afraid that you are not a fly as you thought you were.  You are afraid that you might realize how little you truly understood at the begining.  You are afraid of working hard.  You are afraid of commitment.  You are afraid that you might be missing something.  You are afraid to admit that someone may have something that you need. 

LAZINESS:  It takes too much time.  It takes too much effort.  Theory is too complicated.  I'd rather go __________.  I will start this next week, month, or tomorrow...

EGO:  I am 'da bomb' already, what do I need with theory?  I don't need to know how to read music, people have to follow me.  I have done just fine without learning theory. 


Here is the problem...  This shows ignorance.  The definition of ignorance is: lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned.  Why would anyone with a gift in music want to stay 'in the dark'?  If you were good already and had great natural ability, it can only be fear, laziness or ego that would prevent you from wanting to move forward on your journey.  I can't imagine having this gift and then just settling with being as good as I could take myself without digging deeper...  I am not talking about just theory either.  I am talking about waking up and realizing that there is an ENORMOUS amount of musical resources available at your fingertips on the internet for jazz harmonies and histories.  Youtube alone is HUGE!

Anyway, say what ever you will...  I just cannot get my head around a gifted musician stalling around their own self ability when the world is so easily accessed today.  This was not the case 10 or 20 years ago.  There are no more excuses.

If you want to be a musician... BE a musican... not a person that plays at music.  Embrace the profession / art.  Learn the WHOLE craft.  Read music, learn theory, practice intercal training, play by ear, know how to improvise, compose, and create a nitch for yourself...

I feel you, and I kinda agree, but everbody is different. Not everyone needs theory to do what they do. If I had to choose between having a GREAT ear and having an imense knowledge of theory, I'm choosing ear. NOt everybody thinks the same way musically.

Offline THE WOLFMAN

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #85 on: June 06, 2008, 09:40:44 AM »
  There are no more excuses.




troofs.

Offline musallio

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #86 on: June 06, 2008, 10:20:19 AM »
I guess my response to anyone that believes that playing by ear is good enough would be this:

Is it fear or laziness or pride that is your road block?

FEAR - You are afraid to try.  You are afraid to fail.  You are afraid to admit that there are holes in your playing.  You are afraid that someone may find out that there are whole in your playing.  You are afraid that you are not a fly as you thought you were.  You are afraid that you might realize how little you truly understood at the begining.  You are afraid of working hard.  You are afraid of commitment.  You are afraid that you might be missing something.  You are afraid to admit that someone may have something that you need. 

LAZINESS:  It takes too much time.  It takes too much effort.  Theory is too complicated.  I'd rather go __________.  I will start this next week, month, or tomorrow...

EGO:  I am 'da bomb' already, what do I need with theory?  I don't need to know how to read music, people have to follow me.  I have done just fine without learning theory. 


Here is the problem...  This shows ignorance.  The definition of ignorance is: lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned.  Why would anyone with a gift in music want to stay 'in the dark'?  If you were good already and had great natural ability, it can only be fear, laziness or ego that would prevent you from wanting to move forward on your journey.  I can't imagine having this gift and then just settling with being as good as I could take myself without digging deeper...  I am not talking about just theory either.  I am talking about waking up and realizing that there is an ENORMOUS amount of musical resources available at your fingertips on the internet for jazz harmonies and histories.  Youtube alone is HUGE!

Anyway, say what ever you will...  I just cannot get my head around a gifted musician stalling around their own self ability when the world is so easily accessed today.  This was not the case 10 or 20 years ago.  There are no more excuses.

If you want to be a musician... BE a musican... not a person that plays at music.  Embrace the profession / art.  Learn the WHOLE craft.  Read music, learn theory, practice intercal training, play by ear, know how to improvise, compose, and create a nitch for yourself...

very well said.. :)
I agree with most of this.


I feel you, and I kinda agree, but everbody is different. Not everyone needs theory to do what they do. If I had to choose between having a GREAT ear and having an imense knowledge of theory, I'm choosing ear. NOt everybody thinks the same way musically.

good points there as well..


It's Friday morning and still digressing on this topic.

hehehehe :D ;)

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Offline Wolfram

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #87 on: June 06, 2008, 11:31:54 AM »
I feel you, and I kinda agree, but everbody is different. Not everyone needs theory to do what they do. If I had to choose between having a GREAT ear and having an imense knowledge of theory, I'm choosing ear. NOt everybody thinks the same way musically.

It is a good thing that you live in America, have access to the internet and are able to read the english language then.  You do not HAVE to make this choice then....

I believe your arguement is heading toward the art vs. science arguement, which is something different entirely.  I went to college with kids that could not play a lick of music that was not written down...  Needless to say they were brilliant technicians but boring to listen to.  THEY could have benefited from developing their ear more.

Now, the one thing that cannot be learned is heart / soul.  You either have it or you don't.  No theory or playing by ear will give you this edge.  This ability is what makes people stop in their tracks and listen to you when you play.  They are mesmerized by what you do...  Add this to your theory and your playing by ear ability and you are something 'special'.

Offline seemunny

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #88 on: June 07, 2008, 12:10:11 AM »
I guess my response to anyone that believes that playing by ear is good enough would be this:

Is it fear or laziness or pride that is your road block?

FEAR - You are afraid to try.  You are afraid to fail.  You are afraid to admit that there are holes in your playing.  You are afraid that someone may find out that there are whole in your playing.  You are afraid that you are not a fly as you thought you were.  You are afraid that you might realize how little you truly understood at the begining.  You are afraid of working hard.  You are afraid of commitment.  You are afraid that you might be missing something.  You are afraid to admit that someone may have something that you need. 

LAZINESS:  It takes too much time.  It takes too much effort.  Theory is too complicated.  I'd rather go __________.  I will start this next week, month, or tomorrow...

EGO:  I am 'da bomb' already, what do I need with theory?  I don't need to know how to read music, people have to follow me.  I have done just fine without learning theory. 


Here is the problem...  This shows ignorance.  The definition of ignorance is: lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned.  Why would anyone with a gift in music want to stay 'in the dark'?  If you were good already and had great natural ability, it can only be fear, laziness or ego that would prevent you from wanting to move forward on your journey.  I can't imagine having this gift and then just settling with being as good as I could take myself without digging deeper...  I am not talking about just theory either.  I am talking about waking up and realizing that there is an ENORMOUS amount of musical resources available at your fingertips on the internet for jazz harmonies and histories.  Youtube alone is HUGE!

Anyway, say what ever you will...  I just cannot get my head around a gifted musician stalling around their own self ability when the world is so easily accessed today.  This was not the case 10 or 20 years ago.  There are no more excuses.

If you want to be a musician... BE a musican... not a person that plays at music.  Embrace the profession / art.  Learn the WHOLE craft.  Read music, learn theory, practice intercal training, play by ear, know how to improvise, compose, and create a nitch for yourself...

Wolf, you make many valid points. However....you said all of this directly after my post.

If this was somewhat in response to me, i don't understand the connection. Because there's nothing i said that would weaken the argument for theory. I was MAKING the case for theory.

However:

If I had to choose between having a GREAT ear and having an imense knowledge of theory, I'm choosing ear.

I would agree with that Under13 (under those circumstances). HOWEVER, since we're not forced to "make that choice", i think everyone here would agree that using BOTH, (ear coupled with theory) is by far the OPTIMUM way to go! 8)

Offline seemunny

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #89 on: June 07, 2008, 12:12:25 AM »

From the bass forum..

 Re: to the theory heads
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2008, 02:38:53 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,56240.80.html

Bottom line is:

Learning to play should be the best of both worlds. Because, since music is "sound", you obviously have to use your ears. But to become more proficient faster, theory can assist you.

When you understand some theory, it's not separated from your ear. In fact, your ear & theory will work in tandem with one another. One will boost the other, and the other will boost the one (so to speak).

You will learn aurally, then observe & dissect it intellectually. Your brain has stored it in two ways different ways now! You are better off, not worse off.

On a scale from 1 to 10, your ear might be at a level 4, but with theory, you can actually PLAY something at a level 8 (chords & progressions, etc...) - before you can even hear it yet!....THEN, your ear will eventually start to "catch up" with it.

When you purposely allow yourself to do it purely by ear, you are at the mercy of "waiting for the spirit to hit & waiting for new inspiration", before you can progress! With theory, BEFORE your ear gets there, you already have several intellectual options to pursue, and again, your ear will eventually catch up!

That's how your "ear & theory" works in tandem with one another! "The Dynamic Duo", as it were.


"Musallio The Detective!" lol....Great work man! I was too lazy to find my own archive, but you made up for it like Johnny on the spot!

You went to that proverbial haystack and FOUND that needle! :D

8)

Offline musallio

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #90 on: June 07, 2008, 04:46:46 PM »
It is a good thing that you live in America, have access to the internet and are able to read the english language then.  You do not HAVE to make this choice then....

I believe your arguement is heading toward the art vs. science arguement, which is something different entirely.  I went to college with kids that could not play a lick of music that was not written down...  Needless to say they were brilliant technicians but boring to listen to.  THEY could have benefited from developing their ear more.

Now, the one thing that cannot be learned is heart / soul.  You either have it or you don't.  No theory or playing by ear will give you this edge.  This ability is what makes people stop in their tracks and listen to you when you play.  They are mesmerized by what you do...  Add this to your theory and your playing by ear ability and you are something 'special'.




Wow...Could any wiser words come out from man's mouth!!  I see TMR has thrown in the towel :D :D :P

"Musallio The Detective!" lol....Great work man! I was too lazy to find my own archive, but you made up for it like Johnny on the spot!

You went to that proverbial haystack and FOUND that needle! :D

8)



hehehe..it didn't take me that long coz I just "bumped" into it as I was peeping in at the bass forum 8) ;)
Man, I'm only trying to be like you..like how you pick up the fine details that Diverse did Kung Fu for 51 15 years ;D
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Offline seemunny

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #91 on: June 08, 2008, 01:15:38 AM »
Wow...Could any wiser words come out from man's mouth!!  I see TMR has thrown in the towel :D :D :P

hehehe..it didn't take me that long coz I just "bumped" into it as I was peeping in at the bass forum 8) ;)
Man, I'm only trying to be like you..like how you pick up the fine details that Diverse did Kung Fu for 51 15 years ;D

There you go "peeping" around the corner again Mus! lol...i see you man!  :D

Offline Mintdakid

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #92 on: June 09, 2008, 01:28:49 PM »
Ok Fellas (and Ladies if any)  I  searched and Searched and Searched some more.. about these "Transposers"  and After Searching I Realized something ….   

I Don't Like Them ....

They are Mocking a Real Musician  .. They are the Knock off's to Brand Name Musicians.. They Lack Authencity   …. 

They Must Be Stop…

..........Ok my Rant is Over...........            But I  did take the Liberty to Come up with a Track Dedicated to Transposers  The only thing that's Missing is

Lyrics……..  Maybe we can come up with something Collectively to Express our disgust for these 10 Yr "Veteran" Board Players That Transpose Fluently…

Here's the Track ..

It's only 2 there One is" Peanut Butter" (Long Story)  and the Other is "I Don't Transpose" Let me know if u Come up with some Lyrics

N joy

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Offline seemunny

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #93 on: June 13, 2008, 01:17:31 AM »
There IS one good use of the transpose button:
Out come the knives & guns! lol






















Your transpose button can actually "help" you practice soloing in every key.

Play your favorite recording that you enjoy soloing to. The song might be in the key of Eb, so your fingers practice soloing in Eb. But, then press your transpose button to ANY other key. Now in order to stay in tune with your favorite recording, your fingers must play in a "new key!".

Repeat that process through every key, and there you have it - "the transpose button actually HELPING you to learn how to solo in EVERY key! 8)
Now, put your knives & guns away! lol

Offline Ladyn

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #94 on: June 13, 2008, 01:58:56 AM »
There IS one good use of the transpose button:
Out come the knives & guns! lol


Your transpose button can actually "help" you practice soloing in every key.

Play your favorite recording that you enjoy soloing to. The song might be in the key of Eb, so your fingers practice soloing in Eb. But, then press your transpose button to ANY other key. Now in order to stay in tune with your favorite recording, your fingers must play in a "new key!".

Repeat that process through every key, and there you have it - "the transpose button actually HELPING you to learn how to solo in EVERY key! 8)
Now, put your knives & guns away! lol


Semunny: irt bold, I can not play in Eb and hear Bb or C or any other key but Eb for that matter.  My brain can not comprehend my fingers playing an Eb chord and hearing Ab.  I don't know HOW you all are able to do that!  I use the Vanbasco midi player and I use it's built in transposer to change the key in order to play  along  in all keys.  I am not transposing the keyboard, but the song goes from C to G to Ab etc., and I am able to play along in all the keys.  No need to transpose my keyboard because I just transpose the song. 

Offline seemunny

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #95 on: June 13, 2008, 02:31:22 AM »
I am able to play along in all the keys.  No need to transpose my keyboard because I just transpose the song. 


Well "Whoomp! There it is!" lol....You got it! That's the whole point "for you to be able to play in as many keys as possible, preferably all, so you won't have to use a transpose button!

So you're right on track!

However, for some who might enjoy playing along with their favorite recording, by using the transpose button, they'll be able to get practice moving their fingers in every key, in order to stay in tune with the recording, while soloing.

That's really the only good & productive use of the transpose button. 8)

Offline Wolfram

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #96 on: June 13, 2008, 03:08:03 PM »
Ok Fellas (and Ladies if any)  I  searched and Searched and Searched some more.. about these "Transposers"  and After Searching I Realized something ….   

I Don't Like Them ....

They are Mocking a Real Musician  .. They are the Knock off's to Brand Name Musicians.. They Lack Authencity   …. 

They Must Be Stop…



In real musician you must mean the musician that can do it all.  Read, compose, improvise and play in all style not just Gospel.  They should be able to compose a serious piece of music AND transcribe it in standard notation.  If a "Real Musician" is a person that can sit behind an instrument and receive the Annointing of God and transfer that Annointing to those in the congregation no matter what the situation and then turnaround and teach a group of non-gospel musicians academically what he/she just did, then sir he truly is a "Real Musician".  Otherwise, we are just exchanging one lacking for another, one hole in the cloth for another. 

I was rather upset to be told that I lack authenticity and that I am not a 'real musician'.  I have explained in earlier posts my use of this feature in the concert setting.  By your words, that makes me a fake musician....  That sir, is insulting... 

Offline Wolfram

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #97 on: June 13, 2008, 03:09:29 PM »
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Offline themidiroom

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #98 on: June 13, 2008, 03:32:50 PM »
deleted
It's hard to believe this topic is still alive.   ::)
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Offline Wolfram

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Re: Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!
« Reply #99 on: June 14, 2008, 09:01:46 AM »
It's hard to believe this topic is still alive.   ::)

As long as people look for fault in others or a way to glorify themselves...  Threads like this will always live on.  I will admit that we did have a good discussion going for a while, then it tanked again and went back to that lowest common denominator thing again.  It is so very easy to go to the mob mentality and say "hey look at what so and so is doing wrong" or "You are not a real musician because you can't"  fill in the blank.  The fact of the matter is that It really does not matter what we think.  If you listen to how the discussions go on topics like this you will notice some really GOOD discussions and then some really ignorant comments.  That is the nature of an open forum.  Personaly, I think this transpoing thing has been cooked and is done and the moderators should just close the topics entirely because there is nothing more to be constructively said about it. 
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