What Level were U At When U were Playing For 3 yrs?

[JazzJunkie]

Not trying to compare any one im just curious.  because I only have been playing serious for that long and it feel like Im not going any where. I know chords I can read and play by ear etc It just seems like im not getting any where

[Teddie_Keys]

My question to you is........where do you want to go?  I have only been playing for a little over two years.  And I know that I'm not even close to great.  However, I have goals and plans.  I know that I don't want to have someone elses style of playing.  I know what I like.  And I strive for that sound.  For the past couple of months I have been studying theory hard.  I want to know what and why I am doing whatever it is that I am doing.  I take a melody to a song and change the chording to play it how I would want it to sound without making it sound terrible and making it not sound like the song.  I love taking worship songs and changing the chording. 

But my brother be encouraged.  You are definantly going somewhere!  You may not feel like it or hear it in your playing yet.  But keep playing and playing.  Then when your done, keep playing and playing some more .  You will be suprised at how many ideas you have in your head.  You just have to keep doing it.

Try this out if you can.  If you have two boards stacked or even if you can get on an organ.  Play single notes with one hand and chords with the other.  Take a very simple progression and play that while doing what you think and feel running single notes.  It's fun for me. 

[ltljake]

Not too sure about 3 years, but Ive heard some 6 year plays that sounded like 15-20.

[under13]

I've been playing for about 3.5 years and here is where I'm at. I'd Be a lot better, but I avent been practicing like I should this past year.

Please elaborate when you say you arent going anywhere. Maybe you should try getting a teacher, or listening to some differnt styles


Me playing Classical organ

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C97Dd8EvU2Y

Me playin Hammond Organ

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sWc0k8Aur9c

Me playin Piano for my worship group

http://youtube.com/watch?v=btjwI7lbV2o

You can check out my other clips, but I think these came out the best

[Metronome]

I'm pretty good............... since starting in February 2005 i've played on an album, been the main organist for conferences, played for many groups around upstate ny.  bubt im not complacent.  I wanna be the MAN (not in a cocky way, just keepin it real)

[Fenix]

I'm pretty good............... since starting in February 2005 i've played on an album, been the main organist for conferences, played for many groups around upstate ny.  bubt im not complacent.  I wanna be the MAN (not in a cocky way, just keepin it real)

Man shet yo' mouf!!!! LOL

I am pretty good when it comes to contemporary Christian music. When it comes to gospel i am hopeless, but i'm getting there. Ive been playing for about 3 1/2 years too.

[T-Block]

After 3 years of learning gospel, I was able to play fluent major scales in all keys w/both hands, basic chords in every key, shouting music fluently in one key (basic in the others), and able to catch on to most songs (yes, even the old skool stuff) being sung in church.  I even played during the service, but couldn't (was scared to, LOL) carry a service yet.  I was also made head musician of our choir.

I'd say my level then was a little past intermediate in the gospel area.

[musallio]

I'm pretty good............... since starting in February 2005 i've played on an album, been the main organist for conferences, played for many groups around upstate ny.  bubt im not complacent.  I wanna be the MAN (not in a cocky way, just keepin it real)

See, now this is an example of what 1 can achieve in 3 years

I don't think it is fair to say what level you are judging by the # of years you've been playing.
It all depends on what you can do..if you can do it after 2 years, then I don't see anything stopping you from calling yourself an advanced player.
On the flip side, you could be on your 15th year playing but still be an intermediate player

It's all in how & what you practice, coupled with exposure in large audiences.

I just play for fun so far, but I never cheat on myself& whenever there is a spout where I feel I'm not moving on, I try out new stuff, even if it's difficult improvisation stuff & learn a thing or 2..& I try that in all the key.

But my baby sis is taking jazz classes now & finally she's not cheating on herself & is starting to learn in all the keys, so we have started to work together.
She plays for the choir, so I practice stuff with her etc.

I've been on the keys for a year & 1/2 but can play pretty much of all the stuff they play at church, but have some way to go concerning some aspects of gospel.

I still think I'm a beginner because there are so many genres I can't play .

Jazzjunkie, did you receive this email about the new dvd that's coming out from H&P?

It will show you how to start practicing effeciently & effectively if you aren't doing so already.
I'm still debating whether I should buy it.
I'm happy with my practice sessions.

[divinemusician]

what gets you guys to that point. here is my problem... i started playing in 2001 but every other year i took playing seriously... now in 2008 i have been taking my board to church but i am not getting any where.

where did you start from to get you to that point if you add all my years i probably have about 1.5 years
i don't understand the numbers, theory etc. i mean like i was telling T-Block I get it one day and the next i don't what was yalls game plan for practicing when you first begun. i know one scale good and that is C# i know two chords off the bakc of my hand and that is the Scale Degree Chord 1 C#, F, Ab and its inversions, and oh and C#major 9 with the Eb and F# Ab and C# (whatever that is) i can play a song only if you show it to me and i practice it but i want to be able to pick up songs and not just play two chords or three the whole doing...

God is moving me now more than ever because our musician is actin a fool... thats if he even shows up to church

so i need my musician friends to help me too...

[T-Block]

what gets you guys to that point.

where did you start from to get you to that point

I'll tell ya what got me there.  Here's my journey (kinda long, but a good read IMO):

When I first started learning to play gospel music, I could already play some classical pieces.  I knew tons of theory, I knew how to read sheet music, but I couldn't play by ear well.  One day, I found the Gospel Melodies Chord Exchange site, then eventually LGM.  I printed off every song & theory post they had so that I could learn some gospel songs.

At first it was cool.  I learned the chords that were on the paper and I relied on that to play in church.  I was still mainly a drummer then, but when my dad got up to preach, I got on the keyboard a little.  All i knew was those songs I got from LGM and the ones I learned from sheet music, in ONLY that key i learned it in.  I played completely from memory of the paper, so I didn't understand what I was playing.

After a while, I got tired of that.  I wanted to know what I was doing and not just be a robot, playing chords from the internet.  So, what did I do? I went back to the beginning and started learning all over again, this time using the theory I learned all those years.

1. I made it my number one goal to learn every major scale (on & off the keyboard) w/both hands.  I gave myself occasional tests to make sure I was on the right track. 

2. After I learned those major scales I went through each scale learned the different scale degrees for each major scale.  Again, occasional tests help me to learn even more.

3. I knew a man who played really well, so I asked him to give me lessons.  He taught me a lot of things, but the most important thing was the Basic Chords practice routine (which I posted here a while ago).  It showed me that I can practice all the basic chords (major, minor, dim., aug.) in every key & inversion.  So, I practiced that until I could do it in all keys & inversions.

4. I went through and learned the basic scale degree chords for each key w/tests & charts to help me organize them.

5. I had tons of chorded songs and theory posts that I printed from LGM, so I started going through those posts and applying theory to them.  I started noticing patterns that kept coming up over and over in songs.  So, i used that to come up with my progression practice routines.  I started with the progressions using those basic chords I learned.  Then, used the chords I found in them LGM posts to come up with more contemporary chords to use for the progressions.

From those old LGM posts, I noticed that there were mostly basic chords being played w/different bass notes.  So, that gave me the idea to do some experimenting of my own.  I made a list of all the scale degrees & basic chords, then I started mixing them up to see what I came up with.

6. I tried learning songs they sung in church and songs I heard from CDs using all that theory stuff I learned above.  At first, it was hard cuz I would hear those guys playing "weird" chords.  So, I used my ears to try and figure out some of those chords and add them to my arsenal.  After I learned a new chord, I analyzed it, and applied it to every key.

7.  The more I practiced, the more I began to understand what I was playing and why I was playing it.  I even started hearing those different chords & progressions in songs.  I was like "this song sound just like such & such" or "I heard that run in such & such song".  From then on, when I learned a song I practiced it in every key using the theory & 1/2 step movements.

8. I picked up shout music and preacher chords from LGM posts, online videos, the teacher I had, and other musicians around my area.  For some reason, I seemed to like Eb the most, so I started with that key first.  Eventually, I learned it in the other keys, but Eb is still my favorite.

Some of the steps above occurred simultaneously, but that's basically what helped me get to where I am today.  Some of that stuff above I still practice to this day so that I don't forget it.  I took my time to learn the right way and now it's starting to pay off 7 years later, LOL.  My dad always preaches that u gotta start at the bottom then in due time u will get to where u want to be.  I kept that in mind as I was learning, and I found out he was right.

If i'm hard on anyone about learning theory, it's because it has been the key factor in my development as a musician.  I know from experience that theory works, so I'm gonna keep pushing it no matter what.  I still don't think I'm that great yet, but I hope to get even better in the future.

[Metronome]

Yeah dude........theory is cool.  Unfortunately i could never take it (it ALWAYS conflicts with my schedule, since high school).  I do know enough to understand the basics.  I know the major scales as well as how to build chords.  This heloped me a lot.  When i was starting out i would go and chill wit my boys at rehearsals.  Instead of them callin out ALL the notes of the chord they could just tell me what chord they were playing

[divinemusician]

see i don't know nothing about building a chord or how to go about it... i know my scale degrees in C# with the inversions...

[T-Block]

see i don't know nothing about building a chord or how to go about it...

Now u do, LOL:

Chord Forming

Chords are built using the intervals of 3rds, i.e. every member of a chord is a 3rd apart. In more simple terms, just pick every other letter.  Here is an illustration of how it's done:

1. Lay out all the notes that are used on the keyboard or in a major scale:

A  B  C  D  E  F  G A  B  C  D  E  F  G  A  B  C  D  E 

2. Pick a note that you want to form a chord on and write it down. This note will be your root note:

C

3. Once you got a root note, write down every other note after it:

C  E  G  B  D  F  A

The first 3 notes played together is your basic triad chord.  (C-E-G)
The first 4 notes played together is your basic 7th chord.  (C-E-G-B)
The first 5 notes played together is your basic 9th chord.  (C-E-G-B-D)
The first 6 notes played together is your basic 11th chord.  (C-E-G-B-D)
All 7 notes played together is your basic 13th chord.  (C-E-G-B-D-F)

That's all there is to forming a chord. So, if you want to build a triad off A, you just say A-C-E. If you want to build a triad off B, you just say B-D-F.

Also, each member of each of the chords above can be altered to form even more chords.  Alterations come in the forms of sharping (#), flatting (b), adding, and even subtracting notes.  Here's a chord chart so you can see just about every chord that can be played (u have to scroll down to see the complete list):  http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,43117.0.html

[jamal2k02]

well 3 years from when I started playing for church I wasn't very good at all. I could only play simple songs by ear and even then my chords were wrong half the time.lol

honestly, i'm a lot further than I was 3 weeks ago thanks to LGM, youtube, and musician friends. be encouraged and keep praying and practicing

[kodacolor]

Not trying to compare any one im just curious.  because I only have been playing serious for that long and it feel like Im not going any where. I know chords I can read and play by ear etc It just seems like im not getting any where

Keep practicing.  Keep trying to find new things.  I bought myself a Piano chord poster and it gave me idea for chords and stuff.  I sat on my gift.  I knew I could do it when I was 5 years old.  When my cousin found out she was like, "Dang, if you keep at it and you get a teacher you'll be amazing by the time you're 16!"  And me at 5 was thinking, "that's forever!"  So I started trying to play midis from Sailor Moon by ear.  I learned how to play the ER theme from a Midi by ear.  But between the ages of 5 and 20 there were HUGE gaps of me not playing.  At one point the keyboard (a small portable yamaha) broke.  Then one day when I was about 16 or 17 I found a way to make it work then it broke for good.  Then for my 19th birthday my dad got me a Yamaha DGX520.  Even though I knew I'd pretty much be picking up where I left off it was frustrating to think that I was 19 and still played like a little kid AND I forgot how to play the ER theme!      Now I'm starting to use the black keys more.  My ear has gotten better.  I started playing the guitar at 15 and now that I know that the guitar and piano have the same notes I use the guitar to help me with the piano!

All that to say, keep at it.  Explore.  Get a teacher.  Record yourself now so that the next time you think you haven't gone anywhere you can see how much you've progressed.  Yeah it's borin and annoying when you get to a point where it feels like you've done all you can do, so if you can get with other people who play your instrument.  All it takes is one chord or something new that you haven't done before to set you off on something new!

[divinemusician]

Keep practicing.  Keep trying to find new things.  I bought myself a Piano chord poster and it gave me idea for chords and stuff.  I sat on my gift.  I knew I could do it when I was 5 years old.  When my cousin found out she was like, "Dang, if you keep at it and you get a teacher you'll be amazing by the time you're 16!"  And me at 5 was thinking, "that's forever!"  So I started trying to play midis from Sailor Moon by ear.  I learned how to play the ER theme from a Midi by ear.  But between the ages of 5 and 20 there were HUGE gaps of me not playing.  At one point the keyboard (a small portable yamaha) broke.  Then one day when I was about 16 or 17 I found a way to make it work then it broke for good.  Then for my 19th birthday my dad got me a Yamaha DGX520.  Even though I knew I'd pretty much be picking up where I left off it was frustrating to think that I was 19 and still played like a little kid AND I forgot how to play the ER theme!      Now I'm starting to use the black keys more.  My ear has gotten better.  I started playing the guitar at 15 and now that I know that the guitar and piano have the same notes I use the guitar to help me with the piano!

All that to say, keep at it.  Explore.  Get a teacher.  Record yourself now so that the next time you think you haven't gone anywhere you can see how much you've progressed.  Yeah it's borin and annoying when you get to a point where it feels like you've done all you can do, so if you can get with other people who play your instrument.  All it takes is one chord or something new that you haven't done before to set you off on something new!

try being 25... lol and not knowing

[Lilfingers]

SAME PLACE!

[diverse379]

lets see when I began playing seriously
i had some experience because I used to dabble before

but I think I stopped  playing for years after 3 years of dabbling
but I think three years is a wall period
and something you have to get through


take a look at my practice discipline posted in the keyboard room

If I may suggest ]

you need a source of steady inspiration
somewhere you learn new skills

challenge yourself to read music

or learn to play by ear on a deeper level

by learning from records

put on a cd
and play along pretend you are on stage with them
and you have to play something
even if it is only one note

if you do this once a day
in a month you will have to have learned many new things

if you can read a little
get the african heritage hymn book and start
playing the songs
look for the songs that have arrangements for piano
they are fresh and exciting

[musallio]

That was a really inspirational journey you shared with us T-Block

what gets you guys to that point. here is my problem... i started playing in 2001 but every other year i took playing seriously... now in 2008 i have been taking my board to church but i am not getting any where.

where did you start from to get you to that point if you add all my years i probably have about 1.5 years
i don't understand the numbers, theory etc. i mean like i was telling T-Block I get it one day and the next i don't what was yalls game plan for practicing when you first begun. i know one scale good and that is C# i know two chords off the bakc of my hand and that is the Scale Degree Chord 1 C#, F, Ab and its inversions, and oh and C#major 9 with the Eb and F# Ab and C# (whatever that is) i can play a song only if you show it to me and i practice it but i want to be able to pick up songs and not just play two chords or three the whole doing...

God is moving me now more than ever because our musician is actin a fool... thats if he even shows up to church

so i need my musician friends to help me too...

DM, with the time you've been playing, I think the issue is more in the way you practice & what you actually focus on.
The good news is that since you already know C# quite well, it wouldn't take you that long to come very close to playing just as well in all the other 11 keys..if you so desire

Let me share my short journey which should (hopefully) inspire you:

1) September 2006..My 15 yr old sis (back then) starts classical piano lessons at school. So daddio gets her a small toy board.
I decide to try playing the songs from church by ear.
--After 3 days I could play the whole melody (1 fingered ) of 3 songs.
--I decide I need a fuller sound, so by trial & error I form triads on my RH  & play sections of the songs using triads & then join everything together.
--About after 6 weeks I decide I should play with both hands, so I practice the bass parts alone until I can play it for the full song without error..& then I start playing in 2 hands.

2) I try to learn more songs from church. I see recurring patterns  (i) I was always ending on F# in my LH. (ii) I always seemed to end with the 6-2-5-1 pattern.. & most importantly, I made a mental note that most of the songs sung at church follow a similar pattern, especially the endings which were always 2-5-1 (of course I didn't know it was a 2-5-1 then, but I knew the notes & the sound.

3) After 2 months or so I decided I wanted to try out classical music because it makes gospel music sound so good, so I started reading my sister's theory books.
The theory was interesting, but I couldn't really apply it that well because ..I couldn't sight read fast
--But I did pick up the term "scales" & saw the C major scale.
So I started practicing some major scales by ear (Do Re Mi...)

4) I decided to explore the net for "chord progressions"..but each time I'd come across some jazz websites which would tell me about 13ths, 7ths etc.  This was really frustrating, but I read it anyway because I wanted to improve my playing.

5) I came across www.zebrakeys.com , www.beyond.dk & many other sites..I started to like the theory.
I started to understand that when I was playing all those songs, I was in the key of F#.


6) I came across some preacher chords on www.samsmuzikco.com & liked them alot, I came across H&P, LGM, Aljieres's page & many more..SOme chord progressions I liked, some I didn't..

7) One day I came across VanBasco..& I played some midis on it & it showed me what was happening..SO I extracted some progressions , licks & riffs from there..But I was still lost.

I watched lots of vids by hammondman! ,Samuel Tolbert & DD..those helped me alot.

9) Then I came across the chorded scales chart by Sis T that thing was a godsend to me!!I started to practice my major scales (mostly the Gb & sometimes the others).

10) I used lots of midis on Van Basco to learn patterns.
--I came across T-Block's modulation progressions & progressions series..I made good se of that--Practiced when ever I could..I still was uncomfortable, but I did it anyway.

11) I learnt that sclaes work by numbers, so I learnt the number system & tried to apply everything I did in 1 key with all.
--At 1st it was very discouraging because some keys just seemed impossible..stopping after every chord!!
--I persevered nonetheless..

12) Well, I've been feeding on theory from here alot, even now & all the keys have been demystified & I don't have to start something in F# before taking it to it's riginal key, I can just do it.

13) Since I'm still a baby, I make sure that whatever I practise, I practice in all the keys so that I'm not found wanting in some keys...I normally focus on my weaker keys.

14) I don't really have a specific weak key, it depends on a song, but F# is still the 1 where I can play with eyes closed & talking.
--I will not rest until I'm at that level with all of them..

15) My next goal for this year is to learn to play chords in both hands..

16) I wouldn't say I'm intermediate yet because I struggle with rhythm, so I'm focussing on that these days.

so DM, nothing is stopping you from reaching the level you want..Just make sure that your practice sessions address the area you want to improve in..

If you want to be able to play church songs instantly, select 3 songs with different patterns , but each have patterns that are prevalent in a handful of other songs, practice those songs thoroughly & note the changes involved.
While you are playing a song, just switch onto a song with similar patterns or a similar feel.

Make a mental note (& write them on your notebook or something) of the songs sharing similar patterns.
If you know the common patterns, you no longer have to learn them--all you learn are the fill-ins  specific to a song!!

Just last week, my sister came home with this song we normally sing at church & it was basically a 1-3-4-4-3-6-2-5-1 (even the RH chords were those chords in root position!)

--It was then an opportunity fo me to explain to her that if she learn the 3-6-2-5-1 pattern, she'd be on her way to learn to play most of the songs at church without prior practice of them.

What am I saying DM? your fingers are aware of the patterns, it's just a matter of your mind making a note of them & you'll be amazed at the progress you'll make.

[divinemusician]

that was very encouraging...

I can't believe I read the whole thing but i told myself i was going to read it and i found it to help me in a lot of ways... you are right i just need to practice. like Tuesday night at prayer meeting they sung... What a Mighty God we serve... the congragational one... and i didn't know that song for nothing but after i bombed while they was sing it (i still played it through like i knew what i was playing whether i hit the wrong chord or not) i made it my business to fill the song out... i think it went 5 (x3) - 4 - 3 - 6-5 then went back to 5-4-3-2-1 but if filled it out with the bass note... all i have to do now is put the chords with it... i need to get on it because i think whether i am ready or not i will be playing a lot sooner than i think do to some situtions with our current musician...  (frown on him right now...)