Musicianship

[musallio]

I searched for a similar topic, but found nil results, so excuse me if the topic has been discussed under other headings (most likely )

I want to know what you guys define as musicianship..
As a former olympics hopeful, I have an idea of what sportsmanship is about.

Amongst the other implied duties is that 1 be an ambassador for their respctive sports.
Another is to treat your fellow sportsman (& spectators) with due respect.
& many more.

So I've tried to apply all these principles in my music.

Is it good musicianship to try to learn from or correct a fellow musician in good faith (if they are practicing stuff & you identify faults & some good stuff in their playing?)

Feel free to write anything on what is perceived to be good or bad musicianship.

[sjonathan02]

Here's the interesting thing about comparing the two. In sports, game recognizes game. Tom Brady respects Peyton Manning's game and vice versa. In addition, both of them respect Tony Romo's game (as he's more of an up and comer).


The difficulty is translating that to/for musicians. While the first part may be true (game recognizes game), the second part is, oft times, hard to come by (good musician positively assessing up and comer's musical ability).


That's behind the scenes.

[musallio]

Here's the interesting thing about comparing the two. In sports, game recognizes game. Tom Brady respects Peyton Manning's game and vice versa. In addition, both of them respect Tony Romo's game (as he's more of an up and comer).


The difficulty is translating that to/for musicians. While the first part may be true (game recognizes game), the second part is, oft times, hard to come by (good musician positively assessing up and comer's musical ability).


That's behind the scenes.

gulp...that's something to digest there..lemme w8 & hear what other pips hv 2 say..thanks for intrestng input.

[sjonathan02]

gulp...that's something to digest there..lemme w8 & hear what other pips hv 2 say..thanks for intrestng input.

You're welcome.

[sjonathan02]

bump

[phatstrings]

Here's the interesting thing about comparing the two. In sports, game recognizes game. Tom Brady respects Peyton Manning's game and vice versa. In addition, both of them respect Tony Romo's game (as he's more of an up and comer).


The difficulty is translating that to/for musicians. While the first part may be true (game recognizes game), the second part is, oft times, hard to come by (good musician positively assessing up and comer's musical ability).


That's behind the scenes.

 Very true.And considering the fact that a lot of musicians have massive egos hanging all over the place,trying to point out loopholes in their play is like walking on eggshells,even when done in love.
 But to look at it from another angle Musallio, i think true musicianship starts from the heart.You  must have true love that transcends the love of money and recognition to be able to treat your craft and fellow craftmen with dignity and respect.

[sjonathan02]

Very true.And considering the fact that a lot of musicians have massive egos hanging all over the place,trying to point out loopholes in their play is like walking on eggshells,even when done in love.
 But to look at it from another angle Musallio, i think true musicianship starts from the heart.You  must have true love that transcends the love of money and recognition to be able to treat your craft and fellow craftmen with dignity and respect.

Very good point.

[jlewis]

Well I guess I may have  a little different take on things.   Sportsmanship  ( to me) typically has to do with the attitude an athlete has towards others that play the game.   It has very little to do with the skill an athlete has in his/her respective sport.

For example, you can be a great baseball player ( Barry Bonds)  but his sportsmanship towards the game and other players ( and fans)  was horrible.   We won't even deal with ethics in this paticular discussion.

You can be a very mediocore athelete,   but still have great sportsmanship.   Its all about attitude.

Musicianship ( to me) has to do with techinical  ability and the amount of time you put towards developing your craft.
I don't believe that you can be  a mediocore musician and have great musicianship.

But you have to get past perceptions to be able to really tell.   You might hae a musician who can kill the piano ( but can only do it in one key).  Well,   that is a mediocore musician and he has poor musicianship.

You might  not be able to play every style expertly,   but you can play in any key, play solo or in a band, can explain what you are playing, can read music ( maybe not expertly) as well as pick up a song on the fly. Then that person,  while they may not be considered professional,  has very good musicianship.  I would venture to say that  a person like that would also be considered "expierenced" on whatever they consider to be their instrument of choice.  They are definitely not beginner or mediocore.

Additionally, that person can have great musicianship,  and still be a nasty/conceited  musician.


Thats just my take on it.

Jlewis

[Fenix]

Well I guess I may have  a little different take on things.   Sportsmanship  ( to me) typically has to do with the attitude an athlete has towards others that play the game.   It has very little to do with the skill an athlete has in his/her respective sport.

For example, you can be a great baseball player ( Barry Bonds)  but his sportsmanship towards the game and other players ( and fans)  was horrible.   We won't even deal with ethics in this paticular discussion.

You can be a very mediocore athelete,   but still have great sportsmanship.   Its all about attitude.

Musicianship ( to me) has to do with techinical  ability and the amount of time you put towards developing your craft.
I don't believe that you can be  a mediocore musician and have great musicianship.

But you have to get past perceptions to be able to really tell.   You might hae a musician who can kill the piano ( but can only do it in one key).  Well,   that is a mediocore musician and he has poor musicianship.

You might  not be able to play every style expertly,   but you can play in any key, play solo or in a band, can explain what you are playing, can read music ( maybe not expertly) as well as pick up a song on the fly. Then that person,  while they may not be considered professional,  has very good musicianship.  I would venture to say that  a person like that would also be considered "expierenced" on whatever they consider to be their instrument of choice.  They are definitely not beginner or mediocore.

Additionally, that person can have great musicianship,  and still be a nasty/conceited  musician.


Thats just my take on it.

Jlewis

Thats good right there, real good.

I am trying to work on the reading music part. It is not easy at all. I hae to read a few notes ahead, look down and THEN play it. Its gotten better since i started using a metronome but it is still very slow going.

Yeah so musicianship has a lot to do with attitude as well as ability. Sportsmanship, to me, reflects mostly the right attitude.

[T-Block]

I agree with Jlewis, musicianship is all about how well u know your craft.  That means u know the playing side as well as the theory side.  If you are lacking in any area, then u have some poor musicianship.

I don't think attitude as anything to do with it.  Even the person with the stankiest attitude can have great musicianship.  The attitude just makes u a sucky person to want to be around, LOL.

[Maestro87]

Cosign....but I still believe that musicianship has to do with an attitude as well.  I have met some musicians who develop their craft and can play in any key, read music, solo, shed, and do background music.  But the problem was their humility.  They lost all credibility for their musicicianship when I heard them downplay the other band members. 
Without humility their is no stability in a group setting.

Well I guess I may have  a little different take on things.   Sportsmanship  ( to me) typically has to do with the attitude an athlete has towards others that play the game.   It has very little to do with the skill an athlete has in his/her respective sport.

For example, you can be a great baseball player ( Barry Bonds)  but his sportsmanship towards the game and other players ( and fans)  was horrible.   We won't even deal with ethics in this paticular discussion.

You can be a very mediocore athelete,   but still have great sportsmanship.   Its all about attitude.

Musicianship ( to me) has to do with techinical  ability and the amount of time you put towards developing your craft.
I don't believe that you can be  a mediocore musician and have great musicianship.

But you have to get past perceptions to be able to really tell.   You might hae a musician who can kill the piano ( but can only do it in one key).  Well,   that is a mediocore musician and he has poor musicianship.

You might  not be able to play every style expertly,   but you can play in any key, play solo or in a band, can explain what you are playing, can read music ( maybe not expertly) as well as pick up a song on the fly. Then that person,  while they may not be considered professional,  has very good musicianship.  I would venture to say that  a person like that would also be considered "expierenced" on whatever they consider to be their instrument of choice.  They are definitely not beginner or mediocore.

Additionally, that person can have great musicianship,  and still be a nasty/conceited  musician.


Thats just my take on it.

Jlewis

[musallio]

Very good point.

AMEN & cosign!!

[musallio]

Great input jlewis & Maestro87.

I've learned quite alot in these few responses

[sjonathan02]

Cosign....but I still believe that musicianship has to do with an attitude as well.  I have met some musicians who develop their craft and can play in any key, read music, solo, shed, and do background music.  But the problem was their humility.  They lost all credibility for their musicicianship when I heard them downplay the other band members. 
Without humility their is no stability in a group setting.

Exactly!

[T-Block]

They lost all credibility for their musicicianship when I heard them downplay the other band members. 
Without humility their is no stability in a group setting.

That's what I was trying to convey with my last sentence.

[musallio]

That's what I was trying to convey with my last sentence.

Gotcha