Need help explaining "Why" to my fellow musicians

[organman88]

I honestly believe you can't call yourself a beast if you don't know what your playing on your craft i believe knowledge is power and if a guy can run and play fancy chords all over the board and he/she can't tell you because they don't know in my eyes a player who play average that knows there basic theory is better than the fancy guy because you will always have that knowledge over them.

OH yeah musallio im going to start a post on theory A.S.A.P. lol

[under13]

  Musicians, successful or not, at least know the basics of theory.

I agree.

Some will say that all musicians should also read music. Do you think that is true?

I dont think that we all need to read music on a pro level, but I think "acomplished" church musicians should at least know how to read out of a hymn book. But just because they dont read, doesnt make them not  musician

I honestly believe you can't call yourself a beast if you don't know what your playing on your craft i believe knowledge is power and if a guy can run and play fancy chords all over the board and he/she can't tell you because they don't know in my eyes a player who play average that knows there basic theory is better than the fancy guy because you will always have that knowledge over them.

OH yeah musallio im going to start a post on theory A.S.A.P. lol

Why must they tell you what they are doing?

HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION. lets say Jimi Hendrix did not know theory. Would he still not have been a beast?

[T-Block]

I knew you would disagree with that. So we are just gonna have to agree to disagree. Do you agree?

I think being anointed and touching someones heart with your music is a lot more important than knowing theory.

O.K., so you're annointed and you touch someone's heart with your music.  Does that make u a successful musician?  I think not, that makes u a good player.  That's like saying you can be a successful preacher w/out reading your Bible and gaining more understanding.  To be successful at anything you need to have something upstairs other than "Do this, then play that, then switch that around..."

I guess we will agree to disagree.

[T-Block]

HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION. lets say Jimi Hendrix did not know theory. Would he still not have been a beast?

Nope, he would have been what I said, a great guitar player.

[under13]

O.K., so you're annointed and you touch someone's heart with your music.  Does that make u a successful musician?  I think not, that makes u a good player.  That's like saying you can be a successful preacher w/out reading your Bible and gaining more understanding.  To be successful at anything you need to have something upstairs other than "Do this, then play that, then switch that around..."

I guess we will agree to disagree.

It also depends on your definition of sucsess. Sucsess means reaching ones goals. NOt T-Block's or Under13's goals. Every musician has a different goal, and just because thier goals dont meet our expectations doesnt mean that they are not a real musician or an unsucsessful musician.

[organman88]

I agree.

Some will say that all musicians should also read music. Do you think that is true?

I dont think that we all need to read music on a pro level, but I think "acomplished" church musicians should at least know how to read out of a hymn book. But just because they dont read, doesnt make them not  musician

Why must they tell you what they are doing?

HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION. lets say Jimi Hendrix did not know theory. Would he still not have been a beast?

IM saying if you heard u person playing any instrument and they are a "beast" and you ask them what chord was that or how did you come up with this change and they can't tell you because they don't know they lose BBIIGG points. You asked why must they tell you what they are doing, If you want to know then you would ask.

[Salvador]

I think the overall thing the "Theory" people are forgetting or missing is that the "Ear" people are processing the same information just in different ways.

They're thinking the same things as theory people they're just not thinking numbers they're thinking patterns. I would agree the "theory" side is often more efficient but I vehemently disagree that "ear" people aren't musicians because they don't use the technical terms.

It's not as if the "ear" players don't know what they're doing. They don't know from a technical standpoint but they do from a practical standpoint and isn't that really what matters?

I mean they know what a dominant 7th is and they'll use it in its correct context, they just don't know it by name.

[Salvador]

O.K., so you're annointed and you touch someone's heart with your music.  Does that make u a successful musician?  I think not, that makes u a good player.  That's like saying you can be a successful preacher w/out reading your Bible and gaining more understanding.  To be successful at anything you need to have something upstairs other than "Do this, then play that, then switch that around..."

I guess we will agree to disagree.

Do you know the accepted forms of biblical exegesis in the apostolic period?
Do you know the difference between a high/low context society?
Can you tell me which one the Bible was written for? Can you tell me from which POV it was written in?

Not all Christians are going to know the answers to those questions, but would that make them less Christian because they couldn't tell you?

[musallio]

Oakey dokey guys

All your points are valid/ correct in 1 way or another..
before this thread loses it's value & every1 goes off a tangent, why not leave it hanging here

I think the main point was to stress the importance of knowing one's theory.
Yes, the great players who play without knowing their theory are indisputably great because they play what pleases the audience, but from a teaching standpoint, their teaching limits 1 from reaching their full potential.

It's no different to students going from high school to business school to learn about investing because that will further & quickly sharpen them in business acumen & enable them to advise their clients more effectively..Why is it that someone who doesn't possess the prerequisite educational qualifications required to serve a longer term in their internships/ have more work experience? It's the power of theory!!! & the more you combine theory with practice, the sharper you become, at a faster rate because sometimes when doing only the practical, you may ask "why do I have to this this way?" & the cold response you get is " because that's how it is !" & U have to live with it..left hanging... Ok, I'll stop there!

As 4 success, yeah, I guess we can't really judge success for some1 because if they set goals I regard as sub-par, they can proudly say they are successful because they can play anything in a specific key when I think I still have a long way to go because I can only play everything in 4 keys.

[betnich]

Some will say that all musicians should also read music. Do you think that is true?

I dont think that we all need to read music on a pro level, but I think "accomplished" church musicians should at least know how to read out of a hymn book. But just because they dont read, doesnt make them not  musician

I do both - but think that music readers shouldn't look down on those who can't.
But if those who play only by ear take the time and effort to learn theory and notation, they will be a "triple threat" - skills, ear, AND reading music off the page...

[Ladyn]

The original intent of my post was to help with explaining "why" it is beneficial to learn theory.  The conclusion is that theory does make learning easier and quicker for everyone.  It is one thing if you can play what you hear without needing a lot of instruction (in terms of playing with a group), but when you have a hard time discerning a simple 1-4-1-5-1 pattern then there NEEDS to be some instruction in basic theory.  If you are only playing by yourself then learning  would be just up to you, but when you are a part of a group learning the basic nomenclature should be a priority and is a necessity in order to flow well as a group. 

That said, I believe that as Christian musicians we all would have one standard that we follow, and that standard is the one set forth in the Word.  I think that if we are really trying to be all that the LORD wants that we will learn all we can without balking at the mere suggestion that we need to continue to learn our craft.  The Bible speaks of both "skillful wisdom" and "Godly wisdom".  I'll take me for an example.  I have always been able sing well,  but I joined the choir in the 5th grade because it was neat! Then as I became older I realized the value in all of those things I was taught about singing,  and I wanted to learn more.  True I could sing without lessons as do many singers, but that ability only made me want to learn more!  The same with my instrument.  I played the keyboard a little, and that made me want to know more.  Relentless pursuit of the skills necessary to more effectively serve in whatever capacity we are called to  should always be a part of being a Christian.

Serving God on any level is not always comfortable or convenient, and sometimes we are required to do things that stretch us and  require us to search our hearts to see are we truly committed to HIS will.  I am not saying that a person who does not know theory is not trying to serve God, but I think that person will feel a push to know and understand more as he/she draws closer to the Lord.   A true musician will want to learn more and actually pursue that knowledge.  I know for me that knowledge has proved to be an awesome blessing. 

[Ladyn]

UPDATE!!!!

There has been a breakthrough!! The musician that did not understand "why" learning some theory would benefit them has now told me that they are beginning to understand!!!! They came to me to tell me that they were sorry, and they realized they were trying to understand everything all at once which led to their frustration.   I am in awe! I know this was the hand of the LORD!  We are going to do some one-on-one work this week!

Thank you all for your help, and I want to encourage anyone else faced with this to keep doing what you know is right.  Pray, pray, pray, and let God move on the hearts of those that you are trying to help. 

[T-Block]

UPDATE!!!!

There has been a breakthrough!! The musician that did not understand "why" learning some theory would benefit them has now told me that they are beginning to understand!!!! They came to me to tell me that they were sorry, and they realized they were trying to understand everything all at once which led to their frustration.   I am in awe! I know this was the hand of the LORD!  We are going to do some one-on-one work this week!

Thank you all for your help, and I want to encourage anyone else faced with this to keep doing what you know is right.  Pray, pray, pray, and let God move on the hearts of those that you are trying to help. 

Praise God!!!