The Fully diminished wonder!

[Shadow_]

Some of you already know and use these chords and their variants in your playing but I have just (in my practice) opened up to the world of fully diminished chords. I mean if i played them before it was copied or duplicated but never understood like i do now.

I now play a 2-5-1 (largely depending on the spirit, style and tempo of the song) like this:

in D (for example):

EBD/AbCDG ( a variant of AbBDF)
AE/GCC#F (a variant of GBbDbF)
DA/F#CC#F# (or F#AC#E)

I found that its one of the chords in Israel's "Deeper", right around the: 'Give us your heart(CEF#B) oh Lord'.
Its also the prominent tone i could pick out at the end of Kirk's "Chains", the medley at the end has something that sounds to me like: BbDbEbF/GbBbCF and hen they bounced the F and the Gb.

You can work up countless variations to travel round the circle of fourths or fifths.
If this isn't stale info, then I'll be back to post my journey with these chords around the circle.
God bless and Enjoy my ideas.

[T-Block]

You know man, my favorite chord is the fully diminished chord.  If I can't spot no other chord in a song, I'll know that one instantly.  Better late than never to catch on, LOL.

[musallio]

Fantastic thread Shadow_...

Guys, I'm holding you to your words

[Virtuenow]

Interesting...could you break it down a little more (using the numbering system)?

[musallio]

Interesting...could you break it down a little more (using the numbering system)?

It's already been broken down sister...it is simply a 2-5-1...

Ok, I guess you want the voicings/ inversions as well

If that's the case, then here it is:

in D (for example):

EBD/AbCDG ( a variant of AbBDF)
AE/GCC#F (a variant of GBbDbF)
DA/F#CC#F# (or F#AC#E)

sidenote:
The fact that it is D means that You should use the Dmaj scale to number each note (of course you'd play something that sounds the same even if you applied any other key..provided it's applied consistently to all the notes, but technically it should be D maj scale.
--wo-ryt, we know this is the D major scale in numbers:

D=1; D#=#1; E=2; F=b3; F#=3; G=4; Ab= b5; A=5; Bb/A#= b6/ #5/b13 (keep it simple!); B=6; C=b7; C#=7

In # system:

2-6-1/ b5-b7-1-4  (variant of b5-6-1-b3 on RH)
5-2/ 4-b7-7-3     (variant of 4-#5-7-b3)
1-5/ 3-b7-7-3  (variant of 3-5-7-2)

Now U'r ready to apply it in any key without much thought

[T-Block]

I now play a 2-5-1 (largely depending on the spirit, style and tempo of the song) like this:

in D (for example):

EBD/AbCDG ( a variant of AbBDF)
AE/GCC#F (a variant of GBbDbF)
DA/F#CC#F# (or F#AC#E)

You know, I actually went back and played through these chords and I gotta say, I'm having a hard time hearing this as a 2-5-1 in D.  It sounds more like a 3-6-2 in C or even a 7-3-6 in F.  I'm curious, how u would/could pull this off as a 2-5-1 in a song?

As for what u got in parenthesis (variant of _ _ _), those chords are no longer fully diminished 7ths.  So, to say variant of a whatever type of chord is not entirely accurate cuz u first need to have all the notes present.  You should probably rename your thread "The diminished wonder" to be more accurate cuz u got 2 kinds of diminished chords there in parenthesis.  Then, the spelled out chords are diminished at all.  In fact, the last chord is a Major 7th, lol.

[musallio]

You know, I actually went back and played through these chords and I gotta say, I'm having a hard time hearing this as a 2-5-1 in D.  It sounds more like a 3-6-2 in C or even a 7-3-6 in F.  I'm curious, how u would/could pull this off as a 2-5-1 in a song?

As for what u got in parenthesis (variant of _ _ _), those chords are no longer fully diminished 7ths.  So, to say variant of a whatever type of chord is not entirely accurate cuz u first need to have all the notes present.  You should probably rename your thread "The diminished wonder" to be more accurate cuz u got 2 kinds of diminished chords there in parenthesis.  Then, the spelled out chords are diminished at all.  In fact, the last chord is a Major 7th, lol.

Hey, it definately sounded like a 7-3-6 to me!!!!

but me should just shet up coz I'm a beginner in this game..

[Mysteryman]

It can be used in D. Im guessing yall are using it as a resolve but it sounds right if you play it before going to the 4 in D.

[musallio]

It can be used in D. Im guessing yall are using it as a resolve but it sounds right if you play it before going to the 4 in D.

Sure can..every 7-3-6 is a 2-5-1 in it's vi th.. note...But the little music I've been exposed to , It's rarely that I come across a 2-5-1 that sounds like that..butif I had a choice, I'd say it's a 7-3-6 ...oh well, there are always many perspectives to everything.

[T-Block]

It can be used in D. Im guessing yall are using it as a resolve but it sounds right if you play it before going to the 4 in D.

I'm not questioning whether or not it can be used, I'm just stating what I hear it as.

[Virtuenow]

It's already been broken down sister...it is simply a 2-5-1...

Thanks, I did not want the inversions.  I just did not understand whether all of the chords in the 2-5-1 had been fully diminished.  I think I have my answer now.  However, I was also wondering why he called this chord a "wonder".  You guys say the fully dim chord is your favorite, but what is it about this chord that attracts you to it?  I want to understand the fully dim's place in my music routine & vocab.

[Virtuenow]

?b u m p

[musallio]

?b u m p

I'm not too sure..but if it's what I understand, then I'd say it's becuase of it's clearly distinct, rich sound..

This is how I look at it..:
1 tritone sounds rich enough..but then when it's 2 tritones, then it's even more yummy..& that's what a fully dim chord is ( )..eg, in Ab-B-D-F ==Ab-B-D-F..

[Virtuenow]

thanks musallio, sounds good to me 

[T-Block]

but what is it about this chord that attracts you to it?  I want to understand the fully dim's place in my music routine & vocab.

I love the fully diminished chord for so many reasons:

1. The darkness of the sound

2. The only chord where each note is the same length apart

3. Great passing chord

4. Easy to arrpegiate

5. There are only 3 unique fully diminished chords, everything else is an inversion

There are 2 great thing about the fully diminished chord in music.  The first thing is it has no key.  Since every note is the same length apart, it's impossible to truly designate a key to it.  Therefore, it is theoretically a part of every key.  You can give it a temporary home and name it using the notes of the key u want it to be in.

The second thing is every note can be the root.  Most likely, that root will be played in the bass.  Resolution is pretty simple cuz most fully diminished chords resolve up 1/2 step.  So, if you need a passing chord to get from one chord to another chord 1 whole step away, try the fully diminished chord.  Examples:

Key C  LH/RH

C / E-G-C (1)
C# / E-GA#-C# (#1)  or  Db / E-G-Bb-Db (b2)  *fully dim. passing chord
D / F-A-D (2)
D# / F#-A-C-D# (#2)  or  Eb / Gb-A-C-Eb (b3)  *fully dim. passing chord
E / G-C-E (3)
F / A-C-F (4)
F# / A-C-D#-F# (#4)  or  Gb / A-C-Eb-Gb  *fully dim. passing chord
G / B-D-G
G# / B-D-F-G# (#5)  or  Ab / B-D-F-Ab  *fully dim. passing chord
A / C-E-A (6)
B / D-B-G (7)
C / E-G-C (1)

Neat huh?

[musallio]

Nice explanation T..

very neat indeed