I'm sorry yall but I still don't understand the Circle of......

[chevonee]

I am so confused when it comes to the Circles of fifths. Ok here's what I know

A. You can also tell how many sharps and flats are there in a given key by looking at the Circle of Fifths.

B. The Circle of Fifths can also be used when transposing from a major key to a minor key or vise versa

What I don't know is how do you come up with this type of progression based on that? I have heard people say that this is a circle of fifths progression in the key of Db. How do you tell? I hope this isn't a silly question, if so, please just ignore me. I just want to get an understanding. This is an example of the type of progression that I don't understand

Jamal Hartwell's circle of fifths in C#.
Bb-F/Ab-C-C#-F (C# Major)
Eb-Ab-Eb/G-C-C#-F (Drop thumb)
Ab-Eb-Ab/F#-Bb-B-Eb (Bb Major)
C#-Ab-C#/F-Bb-B-Eb (Drop thumb)
F#-C/F-Ab-Bb-Eb
F#/C#-F-Bb
F/C-Eb-Ab
Eb/Bb-C#-F#
C#/Ab-C#-F
C/Bb-Eb-Ab
C-F-Ab/G-C#-Eb-Ab (long left stretch)
repeat

I can understand progression like this which follow the circle of fourths but the circle of fifths is giving me a head ache

C / BbDEbG

F / AC#EbAb

Bb / AbCC#F

Eb / GBC#F#

Ab / F#BbBEb

C# / FABE

F# / EAbAC#

B / Eb GAD

E / DF#GB

A / C#FGC

D / CEFA

G / BEbFBb

C / BDEG

I have done a search and read through previous posts but I am still dumb-founded. Please help a sistah.

[Fenix]

Chevonee, please if you ever find out the answer, let me know. I am So confused by Jamal's DVD its no joke. I just gave up after a  while .

His explanations are somewhat convoluted. I'll do some more research on this and if i have any answers i'll post 'em here.

[B3Wannabe]

The circle of fourths and fifths are the same thing. It just depends on how you look at it.

I'll use your post as an example....

If you go from C to F, going up, it's a fourth. If you go down, it's a fifth. If you go from C to G, going up, it's a fifth. If you go down, it's a fourth. The direction you go, determines the type of interval it is.

I don't look at the circle as being in a particular key, since you can cycle through all the 12 notes if you move in fourths or fifths.

C-F-Bb-Eb-Ab-Db-Cb-E-A-D-G (flats first)
C-G-D-A-E-B-F#-C#-Ab-Eb-Bb-F (sharps first)

Those are all major keys. When they're talking about minors, they're usually talking about the Aeolian or Natural/Relative minor key. (Note there are other minors. See: http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,50105.0.html I talk about them a little there. You'll notice the difference between them.)

When a person says they're doing the circle in a given key, they just mean they're following the progression, which starts on the 7.

7-3-6-2-5-1-4

If you start on the 7 of a key, you can follow the circle all the way to the 4, once you go past that, you're out of the key. Understand what I'm saying?

[T-Block]

I'll take parts of B3's answer to answer your question chevonee:

1.  The circle of fourths and fifths are the same thing. It just depends on how you look at it.

2.  The direction you go, determines the type of interval it is.

3.  C-F-Bb-Eb-Ab-Db-Cb-E-A-D-G (flats first)  *Circle of 4ths

4.  C-G-D-A-E-B-F#-C#-Ab-Eb-Bb-F (sharps first)   *Circle of 5ths


How do you get progressions based solely on the Circle of 5ths?  Honestly, you don't.  Progressions are for the most part in 4ths.  Where the 5ths come in is the key that your play the progressions in.  So, if you start playing the progression in the key of C, your next logical key to practice it in would be a 5th away, of the key of G.  Why?  Because a particular key and it's dominant will have every note but one in common.  So, playing in a particular key and it's dominant will technically feel like the same key, just changing one note.  Does that make sense?  Let's illustrate:

Key C chords           Key of G chords

C-E-G (1)                C-E-G (4)             SAME
D-F-A (2)                D-F#-A (5)
E-G-B (3)                E-G-B (6)             SAME
F-A-C (4)                F#-A-C (7)
G-B-D (5)                G-B-D (1)             SAME
A-C-E (6)                A-C-E (2)             SAME
B-D-F (7)                B-D-F# (3)

Does that better answer your question chevonee?  Or are we not understanding you?

Theory scholars, if I've said something wrong please feel free to correct me.

[chevonee]

Ok I understand your demonstration T-block and B3 but I still don't understand the red part...maybe its because it is a group of chords in the base(LH).
circle of fifths in C#.
Bb-F /Ab-C-C#-F (C# Major)
Eb-Ab-Eb /G-C-C#-F (Drop thumb)
Ab-Eb-Ab /F#-Bb-B-Eb (Bb Major)
C#-Ab-C# /F-Bb-B-Eb (Drop thumb)
F#-C /F-Ab-Bb-Eb
F#/C#-F-Bb
F/C-Eb-Ab
Eb/Bb-C#-F#
C#/Ab-C#-F
C/Bb-Eb-Ab
C-F-Ab /G-C#-Eb-Ab (long left stretch)
repeat

[THE WOLFMAN]

try this.



make sense now?

[T-Block]

Ok I understand your demonstration T-block and B3 but I still don't understand the red part...maybe its because it is a group of chords in the base(LH).
circle of fifths in C#.
Bb-F /Ab-C-C#-F (C# Major)
Eb-Ab-Eb /G-C-C#-F (Drop thumb)
Ab-Eb-Ab /F#-Bb-B-Eb (Bb Major)
C#-Ab-C# /F-Bb-B-Eb (Drop thumb)
F#-C /F-Ab-Bb-Eb
F#/C#-F-Bb
F/C-Eb-Ab
Eb/Bb-C#-F#
C#/Ab-C#-F
C/Bb-Eb-Ab
C-F-Ab /G-C#-Eb-Ab (long left stretch)
repeat

O.K. chevonee, let me help you out:

1.  This progression is 6-2-5-1-4-2-3-1-7 (repeat), so it's based off the circle of 4ths

2.  Those aren't chords being played in the bass, the notes being played are octaves with the 5th of the bass in the middle.  So, take the 2nd chord:

Eb-Bb-Eb / G-C-Db-F

In the bass, you got Eb octaves plus the 5th of Eb in the middle.  Instead of just playing a plain old Eb in the bass, you can add more volume and fullness to it by playing octaves with the 5th of it in the bass.  Most likely, the bass notes aren't being played altogether, they are probably being played as an arpeggio, but hold each note as you play.  So, it should probably be more like this:

*Eb, Bb, Eb / G-C-Db-F   *hold each bass note as u play them

You can repeat that for all the other chords like it.  Now for that last chord:

C-F-Ab / G-Db-Eb-Ab

I'm gonna assume that there is another chord that comes after it, maybe a 3.  If so, that would just make this an unusual way to play a 7-3 to get back to 6 and start all over again.

Does that help?

try this.



make sense now?

HAHAHAHAHAH, u stoopid man, LOL.

[THE WOLFMAN]

HAHAHAHAHAH, u stoopid man, LOL.

All day mane, all day..

[chevonee]

O.K. chevonee, let me help you out:

1.  This progression is 6-2-5-1-4-2-3-1-7 (repeat), so it's based off the circle of 4ths

2.  Those aren't chords being played in the bass, the notes being played are octaves with the 5th of the bass in the middle.  So, take the 2nd chord:

Eb-Bb-Eb / G-C-Db-F

In the bass, you got Eb octaves plus the 5th of Eb in the middle.  Instead of just playing a plain old Eb in the bass, you can add more volume and fullness to it by playing octaves with the 5th of it in the bass.  Most likely, the bass notes aren't being played altogether, they are probably being played as an arpeggio, but hold each note as you play.  So, it should probably be more like this:

*Eb, Bb, Eb / G-C-Db-F   *hold each bass note as u play them

You can repeat that for all the other chords like it.  Now for that last chord:

C-F-Ab / G-Db-Eb-Ab

I'm gonna assume that there is another chord that comes after it, maybe a 3.  If so, that would just make this an unusual way to play a 7-3 to get back to 6 and start all over again.

Does that help?
 

Hey, I Got It...I can't beeeeelieve I got it!!! That's exactly what I needed to know. Thanks buddy you're a Grrrrrrrrrr8! Thank you too B3 , I went back over your post as well. Yall have to scuse me cause sometimes I have a way of makin a mole hill into a mountain when it comes to these things.. Thanks again guys and God bless!!!!

[Virtuenow]

try this.



make sense now?

Actually, I think that equation may be easier to understand than the "circle of fifths".

[T-Block]

Hey, I Got It...I can't beeeeelieve I got it!!! That's exactly what I needed to know. Thanks buddy you're a Grrrrrrrrrr8! Thank you too B3 , I went back over your post as well. Yall have to scuse me cause sometimes I have a way of makin a mole hill into a mountain when it comes to these things.. Thanks again guys and God bless!!!!

            

I'm so happy that you now have an understanding of what's going on.  Nothing like that light bulb coming on, I know how it is to make a big deal out of something small.

[T-Block]

Actually, I think that equation may be easier to understand than the "circle of fifths".

HAHAHAHAHA, u having trouble wit it too?

[chevonee]

Yep I got it and I'm so relieved. The LH chords really gave me the biggest problem. THanks again for your help!!

[berbie]

After reading this post I am going to sit down and play "Amazing Grace", because if ya hafta know all that(including the fantastic math equasion) It is clear that it is through Gods amazing Grace that I can play at all.

berbie

[SoundofJoy]

Hez Walker " Calling My Name " is an excellent example of how these progressions run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkrTMEG4QMI

[musallio]

Hez Walker " Calling My Name " is an excellent example of how these progressions run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkrTMEG4QMI

Some Great Chords there Mr Tolbert..
I'll try the song when I wake up 2mrw..
I love this arrangement of chords.

[MemphisKeys]

can someone explain the Circle of fifths 2 me plez

[T-Block]

can someone explain the Circle of fifths 2 me plez

Go here man:  http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,34778.0.html

[Churching]

How do you determine what RH/chords to play with the progression notes LH?  I understand how to play the progression in my left hand, but I am thorouhly confussed about how to determine which RH/chords go with the progression.

[KurzLand]

try this.

make sense now?