What's the problem with different styles

[Marcus12]

For all you musicians who REALLY feel as though you shouldn't incorporate different styles in your play.....Do your research on tritones, and then stop playing them!

[T-Block]

For all you musicians who REALLY feel as though you shouldn't incorporate different styles in your play.....Do your research on tritones, and then stop playing them!

Well, tri-tones is not necessarily a style, it's just notes.  Some styles use them more than others, but by themselves they are not a style.

[sjonathan02]

Well, tri-tones is not necessarily a style, it's just notes.  Some styles use them more than others, but by themselves they are not a style.

Exactly.

[Marcus12]

My mistake....thanks for clearing that up.  All I'm really trying to say is that according to the way a lot of people see music.....you shouldn't be playing tritones given what they mean in music.

[sjonathan02]

My mistake....thanks for clearing that up.  All I'm really trying to say is that according to the way a lot of people see music.....you shouldn't be playing tritones given what they mean in music.

  Wha.....


They mean a way to get from one chord to another.

[Marcus12]

This is what I am basically trying to say.  I hear and understand everything that everyone is saying.  Don't get me wrong.....this is just a discussin.  I just want to know what everyone thinks about it.   

Now when it comes to music.  Everyone has their own thoughts and views.  And that's great (lol....unless we were all playing together).  I do agree that somethings shouldn't be played in the church.  But I believe that it is all based on conviction.  Your conviction isn't mine and neither mine yours.  God may place in your heart to not play the way I play because of He has a different plan for you.  I know that God wants me to touch young souls and draw them to him.  Now I don't go out and get the R. Kelly cd so that I can play he's new single so the young people can feel the music/song.  No, I learn all different styles to make the young people feel more welcome.  And I know that someone has a problem with that.  And that's fine.  But I grew up in the same church I go to now and it was beyond traditional to me.  I felt at times that I didn't even want to go to church.  And God opened up the older folks hearts and let them know that God is not a stand still God.  He doesn't only move in traditional songs, but in other songs such as your Fred Hammonds, Tye Tribbetts, Natalie Wilsons, and so forth.  God has a message for everyone. 

With that said....this whole post was to find out what is wrong with playing different styles.  I know that I have heard a lot of different styles of music used in gospel music.  And I'm sure all of you have too!  I just don't believe that there is a problem playing different styles in church.  I think that a lot of you just don't prefer to listen to some of the styles and some of you just are not used by God to play some of the styles that you disagree with.  (I'm not saying that you don't know how to play them or could not learn)

As long as you have a clean heart and you have a relationship with God.  He will place on your heart what not to do and will convict you.  I have had times where I'll be at home thinking of different ways to change up some songs and add a "secular" cut and God will tell me NO!  But I don't believe that you should say that a whole style or even a lick from a song can't be played in gospel music.  Could you be putting limitations on God and yourself?  And that's a serious question that I would like to have opinions on.

[4hisglory]

 From what I have observed over they years "church" musicians have no idea what style really is.  If you don't believe me, ask someone (or yourself) to:

Play 'Amazing Grace'
-in a blues style
-traditional jazz style
-ragtime style
-etc...

[Marcus12]

No doubt.  I definantly agree with you.  But how many musicians really know styles period???  I mean, I don't know really to much about music theory, but I am learning all that I can daily.  I want to know how to distinguish different styles such as blues, bluegrass, country, and all that stuff.  I don't want to put myself in the box musically.   I want to know all that I can to make me a better musician. 

But lets say you know how to play in the style of country.  What is wrong with playing a song in country style?  That's my question.  What is wrong with playing in jazz style?  I think that some people are confusing the question.

[BassbyGrace]

But I don't believe that you should say that a whole style or even a lick from a song can't be played in gospel music.  Could you be putting limitations on God and yourself?  And that's a serious question that I would like to have opinions on.

I want to know how to distinguish different styles such as blues, bluegrass, country, and all that stuff.

See thats when what youre asking doesnt make sense.  Those are two different things.  I dont see anything wrong with different "Styles" but I do see a problem with Secular "licks".  You can play in a funk style without putting in the "For the Love of Money" bassline during offering.  See what Im sayin?  Tritone substitutions and secondary dominants have nothing to do in this sense with playing a particular well known lick.  Yes to diff styles, no to the licks. IMHO of course.  And how are you limiting "The CREATOR" when you choose not to use something thats already been there, which is my point.  I pray that God not only anoints me, but to allow me to continue to play something new.  I believe if we are sincere in wanting to bless God and ppl with our music, he will help us with us reaching out to what is being used for other "intentions".

[Marcus12]

See thats when what youre asking doesnt make sense.  Those are two different things.  I dont see anything wrong with different "Styles" but I do see a problem with Secular "licks".

I agree with you....it is two different subjects.  And that's what I was trying to say.   Yeah, a style is a very broad spectrum.  And a lick is very particular thing.  And that is definantly your's and so many others opinion on taking a secular lick and adding it to a song.   But just like me, I know there is a lot of men of God that have the same opinion as me.  God bless you all.

[Ramar]

It totally depends on the intent of the individual.... Are you doing it to edify the saints or to give God the glory?

As far as "styles" go... gospel music is a mixture of various different styles... Style is nothing more than a manner in which something is presented

As far as incorporating 'secular licks" goes, that's a different story...

Let's face the facts though... why would you want to play Lil Jon (or any other well-known secular music) in church for any other reason than:

1)proving to the young people that you are still in touch with the world(We all know Romans 12:2), or by

2)proving to the older saints that you can play secular music without getting "struck by lightning"

Our music ought to get us thinking about the Lord, not bumping and grinding...
 


 

[THE WOLFMAN]

oh, so y'all mean that the kids SHOULDNT play Jay-Z' tunes in shout music?


<and somewhere, an old jewish man sticks up his finger, going "ah, hchhah!">

[sjonathan02]

Our music ought to get us thinking about the Lord, not bumping and grinding...

And, this incapsulates our entire discussion. The job of the music, as with anything else in which we participate, should be to give God glory and edify (not entertain) the saints.

[4hisglory]

But lets say you know how to play in the style of country.  What is wrong with playing a song in country style?  That's my question.  What is wrong with playing in jazz style?  I think that some people are confusing the question.

Actually from what you stated in your original post and though out this thread, it seems like "you" are getting the two confused because you keep referring to "secular" and not really even talking about style.

[Spyda1989]

1st Corinthians chapter 9 ...start at vs 20...(the whole chapter make a great point but vs 20 to 23  then vs 27 hit it on the head!)

.... 20  And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

   21  To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

   22  To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

   23  And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

   24  Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

   25  And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

   26  I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

   27  But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

my take on this!

Ya see the point of this scripture is that if you wanna play hip hop to get the hip hoppers then there is scripture for that!....But almost 100% of the time these clowns on instruments pretending to be ministers play their worldly repertoire with absolutely no intention to do anything but be cute and get a rise out of the carnal side of the congregation..."remember this jam!" 

Let's get real hear...the scripture above says it's ok...but they are speaking to real ministries that are trying to reach real lost folks! and vs 27 tells you how careful one must be.

...very few musicians came to play at church to get anybody saved...a matter of fact if it wasnt for pay they wouldn't even come!....So they should not be playing "name that tune" at the expense of the congregations souls!

whoa i needed this. i had an encounter with an older deacon of the church the other day that snatched the cords out of my motif and my amp. HE ALMOST GOT HIT FOR THAT. thank God i was able to surpress that anger and humble myself with a swiftness. he didn't like what i was playing it was some lick i can't even remember it wasn't a song though. he hit me with scriptures up and down i hit him with a bunch of common sense but i have some scripture to play his game now. thanks 

Spyda

[Wolfram]

This conversation is razor sharp on all its sides because the original poster did not really clearly state what he meant or maybe he did not realize the hole he was digging for all of us here.

I strongly believe that breaking out into Brickhouse in the middle of worship should get you shot.  I also believe that music is like liquid.  It should be able to be poured over everyone without missing much.  In other words, a true music ministry knows how to bring it home to Jesus by reaching EVERYONE and alienating NOONE. 

What may be great for the twenty somethings might disrupt the sixty somethings in the congregation.  If music actual gets in the way of what God is trying to do, it should be removed. 

So, I guess you can ask yourself this.  When you are playing a hymn and the mood takes you to do something with it that is 'fresh', ask yourself if you are Glorifying HIS name or trying to satisfy your own vanity.  If what you are doing will bring people closer to Him, I say seek ye da funk.  If it will otherwise, distract from the Message at hand... Use your head.

I play a few jazz services every now and again.  This is different than a gospel service as the music is lighter and set up for more of a lighter sound.  We do not use organ on these Sundays.  Only piano, bass, drums and sax.  It is a tool to refresh the congregation from perhaps their getting stale or that deer in the headlights look that happens when people do the same thing over and over.  Again, it is a tool to bring people back in focus with God.  We have used theater and dance for the same reasons.  It refreshes the mind so that you are ready to receive God's word. 

You are never on the platform for yourself...

[Steelpulz]

Different views on this subject have been held literally for centuries. When the church first started using "modes" of music (supposedly they came from ancient Greece), one "mode" (the Locrican) was forbidden - the scale was considered "musica diabolo" - music of the devil.

According to his own writings, everything composed by J. S. Bach was "to the glory of God," yet Bach frequently adapted tunes heard in the local beergarden into his church music.

Technically, there is a finite (although large) number of possible progressions in a song of a certain length - a way of saying that there is not an unlimited different number of "12-bar blues" that can be done.

I personally broke over 200 secular LP records that I owned about a year after getting saved. For a time, I listened only to songs about God and praise. After some spiritual growth, especially when I began to play an instrument, I began to listen to some types of secular music again. There are some types of music that I refuse to listen to - such things as death metal, punk, gangsta rap - music that drags down a person's spirit (there is also a lot of very soothing, syrupy sounding music that has just plain got a WRONG spirit).

I play bass and synth in our church band. One of our challenges is to not let ourselves and the church get "stuck" in any tradition of man. I had the blessing 30 years ago of a trip to Israel during the Feast of Tabernacles, and was able to meet believers from over a hundred different countries - so many different styles of worship and of music. The old church hymns wouldn't still be being sung and played if they had been empty of content (though people CAN sing them just out of tradition instead of hearing the words in their spirits). Some contemporary music is great, other is not so good - kinda like eating nothing at all except Krispy Kremes. Same way for gospel music - does it bring the listener closer to the Throne of Grace or not, that is the test.

Our church has been used to introduce other churches in the regional Association to new and different styles - they hold a choral sing each year. Two years ago, we sang a-capella because the association did not want us to sing backed by our band (no other church even thought of using anything except either piano or CD track); last Sunday night, there were five churches using bands including ours. But the most important thing - our pastor reported this morning that many people from outside our church had complimented us - that the Holy Spirit was present and welcome in our singing.  The high points of the sing to me were the Korean church - hearing a familiar hymn but in Korean rather than English, and the amount of change in the music of two of the more traditional churches - the power of God breaking down the traditions of man.

That's the Holy Spirit at work IMO.

[musallio]

OMG ,what a post!!

I have no further comments!!

[under13]

oh, so y'all mean that the kids SHOULDNT play Jay-Z' tunes in shout music?


<and somewhere, an old jewish man sticks up his finger, going "ah, hchhah!">

That Jay-Z shout is HOT

[sjonathan02]

That Jay-Z shout is HOT