Classical theory vs jazz theory ( modes) and hyper modes

[diverse379]

this is the second post in a series

as i promised i will post the lessons of my theory class on this site so all of you who love theory can get an idea of what a college level theory class does
this class is level two theory that means you passed all the fundamental stuff
knowing what major and minor chords are and how to build seventh chords and learn your basic cadences

it means you passed theory one where you learned all about the various cadences in all their inversions and you learned 1st and second species counter point and if you did jazz theory you learned the jazz blues and bee bop blues you learned shell voicings and left hand voicings and you explored how to build chords from symbols

yesterdays class dealt with the so called church modes
first let me say that there are two ways to learn modes to relate them to the key they came from or to relate them to a scale
most experts agree that learning them from a scale is best beause then you know that you know them on their own

i will relate these modes to the scale

the two scales we  will be using for relation ship is the major scale
and the natural minor scale
if you dont know what the natural mior scale just play the notes of whatever major scale exists 3 half steps up

so if you want to play a c minor scale play the notes of Eb major scale starting on c
if you want ot play an A minor scale plat the notes of c

if you want to play a D minor scale you play the notes of the f major scale

get it ?


the first mode is dorian
dorian is the minor scale with a raised 6
dorian is great for playing over minor chords and to make a charactersitc dorian sound be sure to exploit the raised 6 degree of the minor scale

phrygian mode
has a lowered second degree of the natuaal minor scale
this scale sounds north african or spanish
it can also be used on minor7 chords especially altered chords or chords with a b9

lydian mode
this scale is the major scale with a rasied fourth degree
it works well on major 7 chords

myxolydian mode
this is a major scale with a lowered 7th
it is used over dominant chords


aoelan node is the natural minor mode


we didnt really use locrian because it sounds like the major scale because of the leading tone

but locrian is the minor scale with a lowered second and lowered (7h) (correction  lowered 2nd and  lowered 5th caught by t-block )
and is used on half diminished chords

on all of these modes to really get the sound of the mode you must exploit the note that was altered

we never covered any classical uses for these modes we just concentrated on what chords are used with them and vice versa

now the hyper modes are cool they are the same modes as above but there is a constraint on what range you use the notes basicallay you can only start a fifht below your modes tonic or root and end a fourth above

so you hae hyper dorian
hyper phrygian
hyper lydian
hyper myxolydian
hyper aolean
hyper locrian (this mode sound really cool start on the fifht end on the fourth
so if you wanted to play B hyper locrian start on F and end on E and play all the notes of the C major scale


if you wanted to play an F hyper dorian  play f dorian  but  start on your C below the f and end on the B above the F  (correction Bb caught by the yoda kevinp)

believe it or not this really changes the sound of you solos
I heard a guitar player who did this naturally and he sounded awesome i used to call it a mode of a mode.
 


thats the jazz approach to modes to be honest i dont know what the clascal use for modes happens to be but i will let you know when i find out


next post will come next monday or tuesday following the monday class
however i am moving the thread to the theory room I feel this is where it belongs I will put an announce ment in this room twice and after that it will only be viewable in the theory room

thanks
kindest regards

[KevinP]

so if you were playing f dorian you start on your C below the f and end on the B above the F

You mean Bb, right? 'Cause B wouldn't occur in F dorian.

[diverse379]

You mean Bb, right? 'Cause B wouldn't occur in F dorian.

yes you are correct i must have been thinking lydian
yes f dorian is
FGAbBbCDEb
and hyper dorian is
CDEbFGAbBb

thanks for keeping me honest
i ma have to watch you kevinP

[T-Block]

but locrian is the minor scale with a lowered second and lowered 7h

Um, I think you mean lowered 2nd and lowered 5th.

[diverse379]

Um, I think you mean lowered 2nd and lowered 5th.

yes lowered fifth
so C locrian would be c Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb
because C ,minor would be
CDEbFGAbBb

so lowering the second would give you 'Db and lowering the fifth would give you Gb

thanks

[sjonathan02]

yes lowered fifth
so C locrian would be c Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb
because C ,minor would be
CDEbFGAbBb

so lowering the second would give you 'Db and lowering the fifth would give you Gb

thanks

You know, Diverse, you COULD preview your posts.    This way folks won't catch all the mistakes 


I'm kidding, relax man. You're giving out a lot of info and probably typing really fast, as well. 


Keep it up, doc. The peoples loves ya!! 

[adrix7]

hi sorry just a little confused, im really new to modes, pls help me identify the reason of the different formulas involve in T-Block and Diverse379.  
  is it because they're minor and major? why is it diverse379 has lower sixth in his dorian (and what key is he on?)  i thought when you say dorian for example play dorian in the key of C = defgabcp (you just start at the 2nd degree of the scale?) or if in  C minor/dorian c= defga#c#     is this so..?  pls help me understand

thank you guys/gals

god bless









A mode is simply a scale that starts and ends on each degree of the major scale. It uses only the notes of the major scale, but it just starts and ends on each note.  There are 7 modes altogether. Each mode name signifies what degree of the major scale it starts on.  First, let's review the major scale:

Major scale formula =   __ WS __ WS __ HS __ WS __ WS __ WS __ HS __
(WS means whole step, HS means half step)

C major scale =  C   D   E   F   G   A   B   C

Key of C scale degrees:  C=1   D=2   E=3   F=4   G=5   A=6   B=7


Ionian / Major Mode

Ionian is just the proper name for the major scale.  The formula is already written above, so you can go back and review if you have to.


Dorian Mode

This mode starts on the 2nd degree of the major scale.

Formula =  __ WS __ HS __ WS __ WS __ WS __ HS __ WS __

Example in C =  D   E   F   G   A   B   C   D

*If someone says play _ dorian mode, count back 1 whole step to find the key


Phrygian Mode

This mode starts on the 3rd degree of the key you are in

Formula =  __ HS __ WS __ WS __ WS __ HS __ WS __ WS __

Example in C:  E   F   G   A   B   C   D   E

*If someone says play _ phrigian mode, count back 2 whole steps to find the key


Lydian Mode

This mode starts on the 4th degree of the key you are in.

Formula =  __ WS __ WS __ WS __ HS __ WS __ WS __ HS __

Example in C:  F   G   A   B   C   D   E   F

*If someone says play _ lydian mode, count back 2 1/2 steps to find the key


Mixolydian Mode

This mode starts on the 5th degree of the key you are in.

Formula =  __ WS __ WS __ HS __ WS __ WS __ HS __ WS __

Example in C:  G   A   B   C   D   E   F   G

*If someone says play _ mixolydian mode, count back or up 3 1/2 steps to find the key 


Aeolian / Minor Mode

Aeolian is just the proper name for the natural minor scale. This mode starts on the 6th degree of the key you are in.

Formula =  __ WS __ HS __ WS __ WS __ HS __ WS __ WS __

Example in C:  A   B   C   D   E   F   G   A

*If someone says play _ aeolian / minor mode, count back 4 1/2 steps or up 1 1/2 steps to find the key


Locrian Mode

This mode starts on the 7th degree of the key you are in.

Formula =  __ HS __ WS __ WS __ HS __ WS __ WS __ WS __

Example in C:  B   C   D   E   F   G   A   B

*If someone says play _ locrian mode, count back 5 1/2 steps or up 1/2 step to find the key


Now go back and read through the explanations of each mode and try to connect it to the pattern for major scales. Hint: Look at the phrases with * beside them

Utilizing the modes is a great way of improvising your playing.  It will make you seem like you are playing all kinds of wierd scales, when really you are just playing different versions of the major scale.
 
 

[PianoWizard]

Welcome to the LGM family "adrix7"....Be Blessed.

PianoWiz...