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Author Topic: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?  (Read 23569 times)

Offline KurzLand

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2007, 12:15:44 AM »
Say what?

What your saying is that if I want to play a song in church I should pay for it?

If I was going to record it onto a professional CD, then I would definitely pay.

Do you actually think people are going to pay? I don't.
"Experience is not what happens to a man; it is what a man does with what happens to him." -A.Huxley

Offline MrSparrow

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2007, 07:30:17 AM »
Ok...

You guys need to read what princessofpraise wrote about a church being fined $300,000 for copyright infringement...

Now that you know about it, see what you have to do to make sure that doesn't happen to your ministry. CCLI has a lower rate for smaller churches but smaller churches aren't excluded.

If you sing copywritten material and/or reproduce it (show the words on the screen) you must pay royalties. Every other year CCLI asks it's members to send the song lists of the material we sing so that the people who wrote Lord I Lift Your Name on High and other songs can get their small portion of royalties. IT IS "THEIR" SONG... Just because you paid for the CD doesn't mean that you can do whatever you want with the material on the CD.

MrSparrow

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2007, 07:39:12 AM »
NO DISRESPECT TO ALL,

but you mean to tell me we can't give praises to god because the music is copyrighted.
Sing all types of songs, and to be honest with you I don't know which song is copyright or not.
I'll aint that big anyway so it's should'nt matter. We currently dont have any visual/audio tape ministry so I don't see how that copyrighted


In actuality, if you AREN'T paying legal fees, you ARE showing disrespect to the original author of the song. In addition, you're showing disrespect to our God.  :(

Now, you want to give God praises and that's GREAT. How about YOU write a song and have your church sing it or them.  ;)

NO ONE is stopping anyone from giving God the praise; but the Bible is CLEAR. Matthew 22:21 states "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."


Be Blessed


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Offline MrSparrow

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2007, 01:51:22 PM »
SJon,

You said it bruh...

If you know it's wrong and you still do it, then you are like the leader who was beaten with many rods...

Lu 12:47
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

MrSparrow

Offline KurzLand

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2007, 05:51:09 PM »
Ok...

You guys need to read what princessofpraise wrote about a church being fined $300,000 for copyright infringement...

Now that you know about it, see what you have to do to make sure that doesn't happen to your ministry. CCLI has a lower rate for smaller churches but smaller churches aren't excluded.

If you sing copywritten material and/or reproduce it (show the words on the screen) you must pay royalties. Every other year CCLI asks it's members to send the song lists of the material we sing so that the people who wrote Lord I Lift Your Name on High and other songs can get their small portion of royalties. IT IS "THEIR" SONG... Just because you paid for the CD doesn't mean that you can do whatever you want with the material on the CD.

MrSparrow

Then what's the point on having Christian Artist record songs if we can't even play them? I don't mean record them to a CD but just play them.

Later the song "Happy Birthday to you" will have copyrights. This is just dumb, because if everyone does this then there is no point on buying CDs if you can't even play the songs in your church.


In actuality, if you AREN'T paying legal fees, you ARE showing disrespect to the original author of the song. In addition, you're showing disrespect to our God.  :(

Now, you want to give God praises and that's GREAT. How about YOU write a song and have your church sing it or them.  ;)

NO ONE is stopping anyone from giving God the praise; but the Bible is CLEAR. Matthew 22:21 states "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."


Be Blessed


I see what you are saying, but people aren't going to pay just to play a song in church, there going to pay to record it.

If I write a song and RECORD it, then I would copyright it and wouldn't mind if people played it in church, but if they wanted to record it then yeah, pay me.

This is how you sell more CDs when people sing your songs in church. You get FREE publicity and fans and recognition and if one person liked one song, they would definitely buy your CD.
"Experience is not what happens to a man; it is what a man does with what happens to him." -A.Huxley

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2007, 06:43:05 PM »
Then what's the point on having Christian Artist record songs if we can't even play them? I don't mean record them to a CD but just play them.

Later the song "Happy Birthday to you" will have copyrights. This is just dumb, because if everyone does this then there is no point on buying CDs if you can't even play the songs in your church.

I see what you are saying, but people aren't going to pay just to play a song in church, there going to pay to record it.

If I write a song and RECORD it, then I would copyright it and wouldn't mind if people played it in church, but if they wanted to record it then yeah, pay me.

This is how you sell more CDs when people sing your songs in church. You get FREE publicity and fans and recognition and if one person liked one song, they would definitely buy your CD.


Reading really is fundamental. You can play a song in church (as long as you DON'T post the lyrics). If your P&W leader is effective, then folks will catch on to the song very quickly (and if it resonates in their spirit, well then praise the Lord)  ;)

Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline KurzLand

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2007, 07:57:56 PM »

Reading really is fundamental. You can play a song in church (as long as you DON'T post the lyrics). If your P&W leader is effective, then folks will catch on to the song very quickly (and if it resonates in their spirit, well then praise the Lord)  ;)



So no lyrics? I understand about the P&W leader being effective, but the congregation is so used to having the lyrics displayed. :-\
"Experience is not what happens to a man; it is what a man does with what happens to him." -A.Huxley

Offline princessofpraise

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2007, 08:18:46 PM »
Listen, let me explain this. You can sing a song live all day long and not have to worry about copyright infringements. But, if you display the words to a song on a projector, you need to join CCLI in order to be legal. That is the law.

Realize that the fee for joining CCLI is based on your membership numbers. I have copied the info straight from the CCLI website. Most churches can afford the fees.

It really is about doing the right thing.

 Church Copyright License 
Now there's an easy and affordable solution for churches that reproduce songs . . . or would like to. 
It's called the Church Copyright License. It can loose your music department from the rigid demands of the copyright law and leave you free to legally copy over 150,000 songs and hymns. Here are just some of the ways the Church Copyright License allows you to copy songs:

Record your worship service on tape.
Studies reveal that over 50% of churches record their weekly services for a tape ministry. This service is a real blessing to shut-ins, adults who work with children during services, missionaries and out-of-town members. The Church Copyright License allows you to legally include the song service on your recording.

Project songs from your overhead or slide projector.
Creating slides and overhead transparencies for projections is a practice used by many churches. They find projecting the songs by slide or overhead projector is useful for worship services, youth meetings, adult classes or prayer group where hymnals or other song resources are not available. Overheads are also helpful when introducing new songs and with the Church Copyright License your song selections are almost limitless.

Copy songs in bulletins that you hand out before worship service.
Many churches find it helpful to print the songs that will be sung during the worship service in the weekly bulletin. It makes it very easy for members to participate in the song service and gives the music minister a lot of flexibility. With the Church Copyright License you can legally copy any of over 150,000 covered songs. Almost every song sung in churches today.

Copy music on to songsheet handouts.
Here is another very convenient way to provide your congregation with songs for your services. Covered music can be copied from hymnals or songbooks or simply typed and duplicated. This practice is especially helpful for special services like Easter or Christmas programs when you're expecting visitors.

Copying songs from a variety of sources to create your own church songbooks.
This is proving to be a wonderful option to many churches. It allows them to select their favorite songs from a host of hymnals and songbooks and compile their own congregational songbook. It's an ideal and cost-effective way to utilize traditional and contemporary songs in your worship services.

Maintain a database of songs on your computer.
Even copying songs onto your computer requires legal permission. But for churches that regularly print songs in bulletins or on songsheet handouts a computer file of songs is a logical step. In fact some churches with very modern capabilities actually project songs from their computers. Whatever the case, the Church Copyright License is a perfect companion for a computer song base.

Make audio or videotapes of weddings, camps and special services.
The copyright law even prohibits copying songs on videotapes and cassettes at special functions without permission. But that doesn't have to stop you from recording congregational singing at weddings, holiday services and programs, even church-sponsored meetings outside the church. The Church Copyright License can help you cover all your bases.

IMPORTANT: This License does not convey the right to photocopy octavos, cantatas, musicals, orchestrations, vocal scores, handbell music, or other instrumental arrangements.
 
 
What's the Cost? 
The annual fee for a Church Copyright License is determined by the size of your church. Church size is based on regular attendance at your main service(s). If your church holds multiple services, use the combined attendance figure. The total fee includes License, postage and handling.
Royalties from License fees are distributed to the song composers and publishers fairly, based upon a special song survey that churches fill out when requested (six months out over 2.5 years).

Category Church Size  Annual Fee 
AH  1-24  $49 
A  25-99  $101 
B  100-199  $170 
C  200-499  $223 
D  500-999  $312 
E  1,000-1,499  $382 
F  1,500-2,999  $460 
G  3,000-4,999  $519 
H  5,000-9,999  $655 
I  10,000-19,999  $792 
J  20,000-49,999  $1050 
K  50,000-99,999  $1575 
L  100,000-199,999  $2655 
M  200,000 +  $4260 
 
What You Can Do
Print songs, hymns and lyrics in bulletins, programs, liturgies and songsheets for use in congregational singing.
Create your own customized songbooks or hymnals for use in congregational singing.
Create overhead transparencies, slides or use any other format whereby song lyrics are visually projected (such as computer graphics and projection) for use in congregational singing.
Arrange, print and copy your own arrangements (vocal and instrumental) of songs used for congregational singing, where no published version is available.
Record your worship services (audio or video) provided you only record live music. Accompaniment tracks cannot be reproduced. You may charge up to $4 each for audiocassette tapes and CDs, and $12 each for videotapes and DVDs.
What You Cannot Do
Photocopy or duplicate octavos, cantatas, musicals, handbell music, keyboard arrangements, vocal scores, orchestrations or other instrumental works.
Translate songs into another language. This can only be done with the approval of the respective publisher.
Rent, sell or lend copies made under the license to groups outside the church or to other churches. (It is OK to distribute recordings to shut-ins, missionaries or others outside the church.)
Assign or transfer the license to another church or group without CCLI's approval.

 
 
 
Talent without character is called a "show".

Offline vtguy84

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2007, 10:10:36 PM »
Excellent info, PoP! Thanks. :)
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Offline 4hisglory

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2007, 10:48:49 PM »

It's called the Church Copyright License. It can loose your music department from the rigid demands of the copyright law and leave you free to legally copy over 150,000 songs and hymns. Here are just some of the ways the Church Copyright License allows you to copy songs:


The biggest problem with this license is that it doesnt (for the most part) cover "Gospel" songs.  Like Fried Hammond's, Kirk Franklin, H. Walker, New Breed Ect....... they need to really extend there list.

:)

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2007, 10:52:30 PM »
The biggest problem with this license is that it doesnt (for the most part) cover "Gospel" songs.  Like Fried Hammond's, Kirk Franklin, H. Walker, New Breed Ect....... they need to really extend there list.




I'm willing to bet that if enough churches made an inquiry or a request, then they'd expand it, no problem.  ;)
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline MrSparrow

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2007, 07:25:46 AM »
SJon,

The problem is that we as African Americans are of the oral tradition. We don't really write down how we do what we do. Sites like this are starting to change that but... once the BLACK churches start to do the right thing then CCLI will HAVE to include more musicians.

4HisGlory,

Most of Kirk, all of Isreal Houghton and most of Fred's songs are on there. The real reason is because Isreal is with Integrity. Integrity does it's business the right way. Don Moen (who's wrote SOOOOOO many good songs) is the president and is a songwriter's songwriter so he takes care of his artists. As soon other companies like Tyscot, Verity etc... send their information to CCLI the artists that we love we be represented. Most of what I need is on there not to mention access to their top 100 song list and song clips of songs AND lead sheets that play the music for you to see and hear PLUS the fact that you can transpose the song to whatever key you want to PLUS a subscription to Worship Leader Magazine PLUS access to thousands of lyric PLUS the fact that you can just print up the lyrics and legally pass them out during choir rehearasal or put them in your program... just check it out for a year and you'll see that that's one of the best investments your church can put in your ministry.

MrSparrow

Offline vtguy84

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2007, 07:29:56 AM »
The biggest problem with this license is that it doesnt (for the most part) cover "Gospel" songs.  Like Fried Hammond's, Kirk Franklin, H. Walker, New Breed Ect....... they need to really extend there list.



Fried Hammond¿! 

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Offline 4hisglory

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2007, 07:51:32 AM »
I looked on the list and didn't see alot of top gospel artist

http://www.ccli.com/US/WhatWeOffer/ChurchCopyrightLicenses/CCLI%20Publishers.aspx

http://www.ccli.com/upload/acl_usa.pdf

Are they under a different name??
:)

Offline MrSparrow

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2007, 08:15:56 AM »
That list is of publishers... artists like Isreal Houghton and Steven Hurd would be under Intergrity Records... Once more gospel publishers send their information in, then that list will be longer...

MrSparrow

Offline nessalynn77

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2007, 06:16:48 PM »
Fried Hammond¿! 

There's my laugh for the day :D :D :D
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Offline diverse379

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2007, 08:13:32 AM »
Are you certain? I was told we couldn't sing the songs at all if they were taking an offering at the church. Putting the words on the screen is just the same as passing out the lyrics. I talked to the CCLI people myself. I was told by them that the people/churches who don't use CCLI or pay the composers directly for use of their material are illegally using the music.


If your choir is singing a concert with copyrighten material and you don't pay the songwriters, you have stolen their material and made a profit off of it.

MrSparrow

non profits fall under a different umbrella somehow
To be or not to be that is the question you anwer when you pray practice and read your word

Offline MrSparrow

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2007, 08:16:39 AM »
Is the church really a non-profit organization???

My church makes a HUGE profit EVERY Service...

MrSparrow

Offline princessofpraise

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2007, 08:24:28 AM »

 :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X


Is the church really a non-profit organization???

My church makes a HUGE profit EVERY Service...

MrSparrow
Talent without character is called a "show".

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church?
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2007, 08:46:13 AM »
:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

Is the church really a non-profit organization???

My church makes a HUGE profit EVERY Service...

MrSparrow


Mind if I join you, PoP?  :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.
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