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Author Topic: Ever read something that made you say Wow?  (Read 1986 times)

HammerRock

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Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« on: December 06, 2006, 08:28:30 AM »
There will be a discussion question at the end, but please do not skip to the question. I am asking YOU for an answer.

************************

To preface this, first read these from Romans 14

Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.

Romans 14:13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.

Romans 14:19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.

You can read Jude 1 in context at http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=72&chapter=1&version=31 , but what sticks out to me is:

Jude 1:4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

... meaning that they are among us... and continue..

Jude 1:10 Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

... self explanatory... and continue...

Jude 1:12-13 12 These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. 13They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

... shepherds who feed only themselves... people without fruit, twice dead... and continue...

Jude 1:16 These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.

... grumblers... faultfinders... flatterers for their own gain... the spirits of correctness and control I mentioned in previous posts.

************

but now we compare this with Romans 14, where we are told to stop judging one another...

We can see the fruit of someone's relationship with Christ (Galations 5:22-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%205:22-23;&version=31;)....

Now, for you, where do you draw this line? Knowing that we shouldn't judge, knowing that there are these false brothers among us who divide us, and also knowing that the wheat and the tares grow together? How do you merge these three together?

I don't want to just blurt out what I think here... I will pray on this answer as well, and answer this question in time, but I am asking to see your response.

Nakia518

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2006, 08:36:02 AM »
I believe that we are not to judge... but to observe....

We are told who and what they are... so that we can recognize it for what they are...

We are to recognize that spirit... We are NOT to link up with them but to pray for them...

Sometimes it is best to be silent and observe... Its a beter way to weed out your enemies...

Just my 2 cents...

HammerRock

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2006, 08:40:45 AM »
I believe that we are not to judge... but to observe....

We are told who and what they are... so that we can recognize it for what they are...

We are to recognize that spirit... We are NOT to link up with them but to pray for them...

Sometimes it is best to be silent and observe... Its a beter way to weed out your enemies...

Just my 2 cents...


But what about when they cause division among us and are sowing seeds of contention? When they are standing on the platform with us because they're "gifted" musicians?... who leave for 30-45 minutes for dunkin donuts when they should be listening to the preacher? (sorry, I just had to add that!)

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2006, 08:44:31 AM »
But what about when they cause division among us and are sowing seeds of contention? When they are standing on the platform with us because they're "gifted" musicians?... who leave for 30-45 minutes for dunkin donuts when they should be listening to the preacher? (sorry, I just had to add that!)


You had to?  :-\
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Nakia518

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2006, 08:58:12 AM »
But what about when they cause division among us and are sowing seeds of contention? When they are standing on the platform with us because they're "gifted" musicians?... who leave for 30-45 minutes for dunkin donuts when they should be listening to the preacher? (sorry, I just had to add that!)

That is very frustrating to see and deal with... I myself have a problem with people not being dilegent in their crafts... and not take it seriously... and when you relly think about it they are short changing God and themselves...

When they cause division and sow seeds of contention that has to be taken care of immediately... and all parties involve need to present... so that they are no misunderstandings... Things of that nature need to be prayed for and then confronted...

Our guess preacher last night told us that when things like this happens... we need to blast that spirit off of them... thru prayer... if they are present during the prayer that spirit caint stand.... It had to leave and/or take the person with them... If the person is a real son/daughter they caint leave so that spirit will have to leave by itself...

And if you are witnessing them sowing those poison seeds... YOU have to first NOT listen to what they are saying... and even tell them to shut their mouths... all in love of course... That is how a LOT of problems in the church happen... and it has a LOT to do with the jezebel spirit... As a matter of fact I am working on a lesson about the jezebel spirit that I know yall are gonna eat up... Cause this spirit is running ramped in the church...


TheVeteran

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2006, 09:00:35 AM »
Ever read something that made you say Wow?

You mean other than your posts?   :D  :D  :D

I'm kidding!  We don't agree much, but I've grown to respect you.

Seriously though, some of the scriptures you mentioned have been ABUSED by those who want to have free reign.

I can approach someone about something that they're doing WITHOUT judging them!  If I have a genuine concern about something, by telling the person doesn't mean I'm judging them!

I've already SEEN what they're doing, so there's nothing wrong with approaching this individual in brotherly love. 
Yet some will say silly things like "Only GOD can judge me" to justify the fact that they're living like the cats and the dogs.   :-\

Nakia518

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2006, 09:10:13 AM »
I've already SEEN what they're doing, so there's nothing wrong with approaching this individual in brotherly love. 
Yet some will say silly things like "Only GOD can judge me" to justify the fact that they're living like the cats and the dogs.   :-\

Even if you come to them in Love... Guilty conscience needs no accuser....
If you are coming to them with a genuine concern and it is in Love... There is no need for them to state that....

The only reason whey they would say that is because they know that they are doing something wrong and they are mad cause you called them on it...

But let me ask this... Since we have the spirit of God in us... and we are coming to them in LOVE... isnt that God coming to them and "Judging" them...
I mean I have never known God to walk up to anyone and say "listen.. I see what you are doing and I want it to stop now or else I'm going to have to judge you"

They make it seem like because God hasnt snatched them up by the collar they can do what ever... pppssshhhh.....

uniquepraise

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2006, 09:11:51 AM »
Sometimes GOD shows you something for you to pray for that issue or that person...not always to talk about it! ;D

TheVeteran

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2006, 09:15:26 AM »
I've already SEEN what they're doing, so there's nothing wrong with approaching this individual in brotherly love. 
Yet some will say silly things like "Only GOD can judge me" to justify the fact that they're living like the cats and the dogs.   :-\

The only reason whey they would say that is because they know that they are doing something wrong and they are mad cause you called them on it...

Pretty much.   :)

Sometimes GOD shows you something for you to pray for that issue or that person...not always to talk about it! ;D

Yea.  Many times.  But then there are times when you should say something.  As many as are led by the Spirit.....

uniquepraise

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2006, 09:18:53 AM »
Pretty much.   :)

Yea.  Many times.  But then there are times when you should say something.  As many as are led by the Spirit.....
When it is the Spirit he will give you what to say and how to say. How they respond is on them ;D

Nakia518

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2006, 09:23:56 AM »
When it is the Spirit he will give you what to say and how to say. How they respond is on them ;D


Amen... I have found that even when you say things in love... people will still get offended.... but you say it anyway...

And the holy spirit will give you what to say... Just yesterday I had to tell a close friend something that he didnt want to hear... Everyone has been saying the same thing to him... but because I prayed about it before I said anything and the fact that I said it in Love... he accepted it without blowing up...

HammerRock

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2006, 09:35:23 AM »
Yea.  Many times.  But then there are times when you should say something.  As many as are led by the Spirit.....

Although I tyr to stand fast in what I beleive, I don't like confrontation, so if it's gonna happen it's going to be because He led me there. and... I have to say... I really do love these guys. God is a God of Inclusion. He wants these guys to know Him. He wants these guys to be a part of His Church. I don't want to see them go... but... if things don't change that may happen, because I'm not going anywhere! LOL...

Besides... I've been thrown out of all the other churches in the area! (just kidding TheVeteran!)

HammerRock

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2006, 09:40:38 AM »

You had to?  :-\

Well, this is a part of the bigger picture... it gets worse

Offline SisterT

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2006, 09:49:39 AM »
I think we err sometimes in our definition of "judging". Judging is not condemning.

In the Greek, the word for judge means "to seperate, distinguish, discriminate between good and evil, select, choose out good.

Matthew 7:1, is a passage that's always quoted when folks holler "Don't Judge Me!", without looking at the follow-up verse, verse 2 which states we will judge.  It says:
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Specifically in these verses, judge means "to form and express a judgment or opinion as to any person or thing, more commonly unfavorable."

Jesus is not saying that we are not to judge, but he is teaching us that we should be fair, compassionate and unbias in our judgment of others, because when we pass unfair judgment, we will be unfairly judged by others and/or others will form wrong opinions about us----all because we based our judgment on insufficient information and what we heard (gossip) rather than what we know (proven facts, evidence).

Basically Jesus is telling is, however you judge folks is how you are going to be judge by other folks. If you are compassionate in your judging, others will show you compassion. In other words, you reap what you sow---AND --Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

If I were to say Satan is evil, I have just judged him. I based my judgment on the information I KNOW (not heard) is true.

If you know Deacon John is in adultery with Sister Sue, neither are remorseful, it is not passing wrong judgment to approach them in love with what the Word of God says. You are judging them based on what you KNOW, not heard, and since they are a part of the church & church leadership, discipline (such as Deacon John being dismissed as a deacon) may need to be carried out. How are we to discipline in the church if we do not judge?

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2006, 09:58:19 AM »
I think we err sometimes in our definition of "judging". Judging is not condemning.

In the Greek, the word for judge means "to seperate, distinguish, discriminate between good and evil, select, choose out good.

Matthew 7:1, is a passage that's always quoted when folks holler "Don't Judge Me!", without looking at the follow-up verse, verse 2 which states we will judge.  It says:
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Specifically in these verses, judge means "to form and express a judgment or opinion as to any person or thing, more commonly unfavorable."

Jesus is not saying that we are not to judge, but he is teaching us that we should be fair, compassionate and unbias in our judgment of others, because when we pass unfair judgment, we will be unfairly judged by others and/or others will form wrong opinions about us----all because we based our judgment on insufficient information and what we heard (gossip) rather than what we know (proven facts, evidence).

Basically Jesus is telling is, however you judge folks is how you are going to be judge by other folks. If you are compassionate in your judging, others will show you compassion. In other words, you reap what you sow---AND --Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

If I were to say Satan is evil, I have just judged him. I based my judgment on the information I KNOW (not heard) is true.

If you know Deacon John is in adultery with Sister Sue, neither are remorseful, it is not passing wrong judgment to approach them in love with what the Word of God says. You are judging them based on what you KNOW, not heard, and since thus are a part of the church, discipline (such as Deacon John being dismissed as a deacon) may need to be carried out. How are we to discipline in the church if we do not judge?


TEACH THAT THANG, GIRL!!! TEACH IT!!!
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

TheVeteran

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2006, 10:07:23 AM »

If you know Deacon John is in adultery with Sister Sue, neither are remorseful, it is not passing wrong judgment to approach them in love with what the Word of God says. You are judging them based on what you KNOW, not heard, and since they are a part of the church & church leadership, discipline (such as Deacon John being dismissed as a deacon) may need to be carried out. How are we to discipline in the church if we do not judge?

Lawd Jesus.  There's a Deacon John in my church.  You just put all kinds of thoughts in my head. 

Offline SisterT

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2006, 10:09:55 AM »
Lawd Jesus.  There's a Deacon John in my church.  You just put all kinds of thoughts in my head. 


Lawd ham Murcy----I can only imagine. LOL!  :D

HammerRock

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2006, 10:12:35 AM »
I think we err sometimes in our definition of "judging". Judging is not condemning.

In the Greek, the word for judge means "to seperate, distinguish, discriminate between good and evil, select, choose out good.

Matthew 7:1, is a passage that's always quoted when folks holler "Don't Judge Me!", without looking at the follow-up verse, verse 2 which states we will judge.  It says:
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Specifically in these verses, judge means "to form and express a judgment or opinion as to any person or thing, more commonly unfavorable."

Jesus is not saying that we are not to judge, but he is teaching us that we should be fair, compassionate and unbias in our judgment of others, because when we pass unfair judgment, we will be unfairly judged by others and/or others will form wrong opinions about us----all because we based our judgment on insufficient information and what we heard (gossip) rather than what we know (proven facts, evidence).

Basically Jesus is telling is, however you judge folks is how you are going to be judge by other folks. If you are compassionate in your judging, others will show you compassion. In other words, you reap what you sow---AND --Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

If I were to say Satan is evil, I have just judged him. I based my judgment on the information I KNOW (not heard) is true.

If you know Deacon John is in adultery with Sister Sue, neither are remorseful, it is not passing wrong judgment to approach them in love with what the Word of God says. You are judging them based on what you KNOW, not heard, and since they are a part of the church & church leadership, discipline (such as Deacon John being dismissed as a deacon) may need to be carried out. How are we to discipline in the church if we do not judge?

Wow... great stuff! Thank you.

Offline SisterT

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2006, 10:40:38 AM »
Wow... great stuff! Thank you.

Also, let me add, those scriptures you gave in Romans is speaking of "unfair" judgment. To understand where those particular verses are coming from one would have to not only read the entire chapter, but also look at why it was written. Romans 14 deals with the attitudes of a Strong (Mature) Believer and a Weak (new, Babe) believer. The teaching of judging in this chapter admoishes believers not to be critical of our brothers and not to look down upon or brothers because we alll serve the same God and what we all do (strong & weak) is God ordered and for God's glory.

TheVeteran

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Re: Ever read something that made you say Wow?
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2006, 10:46:36 AM »
Also, let me add, those scriptures you gave in Romans is speaking of "unfair" judgment. To understand where those particular verses are coming from one would have to not only read the entire chapter, but also look at why it was written. Romans 14 deals with the attitudes of a Strong (Mature) Believer and a Weak (new, Babe) believer. The teaching of judging in this chapter admoishes believers not to be critical of our brothers and not to look down upon or brothers because we alll serve the same God and what we all do (strong & weak) is God ordered and for God's glory.


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