Question about Chord Naming Practices

[outstretchedarm]

okay, I've been wondering something

If you are playing a chord, and then mess with something in the bass, for example, throw in a tri-tone, what is the naming convention for that newly formed chord?

For example, lets say, in the key of C, you play

(LH/RH)

C  /   G - C - E                          C major

but then put a tri-tone in the bassas a setup for a new chord, like this:

D - Ab  / G - C - E             

what would you call that?   Is it still a C chord, in which case you would start naming it by identifying the C as the root

C

the E is a 3rd
the G is a 5th
the D is a 9th
the Ab is a #5

so it would be

C#5add9

*or*

is the tri-tone the new root, such as

D is the root
G is the 4th of the D dim scale
Ab is the flattened 5th (technically the *real* 5th of the D diminished scale)
C is the flattened 8th (???) of the dim scale
E is the 9th

thus, in this approach, it would be called
Ddimsus4b8add9

isn't that the craziest?
anyone want to shed light on this?

[B3Wannabe]

Sometimes, for me, the bass is omitted.

D-Ab / G-C-E

will actually be

Bb-D-Ab / G-C-E

...which makes about the same sound. If you name it from the D, I'd call it...

Dsus9 b5

[T-Block]

okay, I've been wondering something

If you are playing a chord, and then mess with something in the bass, for example, throw in a tri-tone, what is the naming convention for that newly formed chord?

The way you name a chord is by stacking it in thirds and seeing what notes u have.  Try using each note as the root and stack it up in thirds.  Once you got that, pick the ones that are most reasonable to be the name.  Then, look at what key you are in to see if there is a relation between the chords and your key.  Usually, there will be one chord name that fits better than the rest, so that will be the name of your chord. 

Remember, the note on the bottom is not always the root, so u can't automatically call it that type of chord.

For example, lets say, in the key of C, you play

(LH/RH)

C  /   G - C - E                          C major

but then put a tri-tone in the bassas a setup for a new chord, like this:

D - Ab  / G - C - E             

what would you call that?   Is it still a C chord, in which case you would start naming it by identifying the C as the root

C

the E is a 3rd
the G is a 5th
the D is a 9th
the Ab is a #5

so it would be

C#5add9

Since u want C to be your root, u would stack the notes like this:  C-E-G-D-Ab

the C is your root
the E is a 3rd
the G is a 5th
the D is a 9th
the Ab is a b13

So, I would name it like this:  Cadd9 (b13)

*or*

is the tri-tone the new root, such as

D is the root
G is the 4th of the D dim scale
Ab is the flattened 5th (technically the *real* 5th of the D diminished scale)
C is the flattened 8th (???) of the dim scale
E is the 9th

thus, in this approach, it would be called
Ddimsus4b8add9

isn't that the craziest?
anyone want to shed light on this?

If D is the root, then you have to stack the notes like this:  D-Ab-C-E-G

D is the root
Ab is the flattened 5th
C is the dominant 7th
E is the 9th
G is the 13th

So, your chord is:  D13 (b5)

That is my approach to it.  Of course, you still have to look at what key you are in, where you came from, and where you are going to get an accurate name for the chord.

[sjonathan02]

You just opened up my mind on this one, T!! Good stuff, sir. Good stuff.

[B3Wannabe]

G in a D chord is the 4th, not the 13th (B), since the 3rd is missing F#, it is assumed that it's suspended to G.

[outstretchedarm]

man, this is a brain buster.  i gotta look at this with a fresh head.  but thus far your explanation, t, sounds like it will take the day.

[rspindy]

okay, I've been wondering something

If you are playing a chord, and then mess with something in the bass, for example, throw in a tri-tone, what is the naming convention for that newly formed chord?

For example, lets say, in the key of C, you play

(LH/RH)

C  /   G - C - E                          C major

but then put a tri-tone in the bassas a setup for a new chord, like this:

D - Ab  / G - C - E             

what would you call that?   Is it still a C chord, in which case you would start naming it by identifying the C as the root

First, when figuring out chords, when only one tritone is involved, it will usually be between the root and 5th or the 3rd and 7th since the tritone is integral to the dominant chord and its derivatives.   It could surely be named in a way that puts the tritone between higher members, but it will try to function as if the tritone has a closer relationship to the root.

In this instance, your tritone can belong to Bb7, Dm7b5, D dim, E7, G#m7b5, or Gdim

[The () means an implied note.   The / in the note names is alternate spellings]
Bb7   -- (Bb) D (F) Ab C E G --- Bb7 9/#11/13   
The Dm7b5 (half-diminished 7) is simply the notes of the Bb 9 without a root.

E7   -- E  G#/Ab  B#/C D  F##/G  (A)  C   ---  E7 #5/#9

This is actually a rootless voicing that allows either chord.  (two chords for the price of one).  The potential root would have to be determined according to the key and the context of the chords around it.  If the key is Eb,  Bb7 is its dominant and E7 is the tritone substitute.  If there is no compelling reason to indicate a Bass of E, then the Bb name is the choice.  (In A -- E7 is Dominant and Bb7 is tritone sub)

If the Bass motion has been by steps and half-steps then the choice that continues that motion may be the better choice.  In the key of Eb Say the bass line has been moving down "A   Ab  G  Gb  F   (?)   Eb"  Then E might be the better choice (unless you want to break the pattern.)  On the other hand, if the bass has been moving "D   G   C   F   (?)  Eb"  Then the Bb choice may be better.

With these types of chords, there is really no hard and fast rule.
Either way, they are tritone substitutes other.

[T-Block]

G in a D chord is the 4th, not the 13th (B), since the 3rd is missing F#, it is assumed that it's suspended to G.

That makes sense.